'Frustrated' Füle cancels visit to Macedonia

Part of the problem facing the Republic of Macedonia is that others refer to the Albanian minority as "Albanians", but the majority ethnic Macedonians as "Slavs". First of all, the ethnic Albanians in Macedonia have all of their minority rights, full education, language and religious rights, and even hold prominent positions in government. Contrast this to the situation of ethnic Albanians in Greece or Serbia. Second, ethnic Macedonians should be called "Macedonians", not "Slavs". In Kosovo, it wasn't Albanians fighting against Slavs, even though Serbs are as much Slavs as Macedonians. The same can be said for Croatians, Slovenians, Bulgarians, Slovaks, Russians, etc, all have "Slav" heritage, but I have never seen them referred to as "Slavs". Third, look at the situation of Albanian, Turkish, Serbian, Roma, and other minorities in the Republic of Macedonia, and compare it to the situation of Turkish and Macedonian minorities in Greece and Bulgaria, both EU countries.

ah, dear Piotr, it's about a lot of blood spillt on all sides in the not so far past.

If the Slavs of FYROM need the EU then it is correct for them to get their house in order. The opposition regardless of its political colours is there to hold the government accountable.

Bringing the name dispute with Greece into every turn that FYROM takes in every internal political event is a simplistic ploy used by both the right wing nationalists and their left wing opposition to detract from the Slavic conundrum.

For the time being the Slavs of FYROM are in the majority and while the Albanian minority are quickly increasing their demographic footprint we can assume that in a decade or so the Slavic population will itself become the largest minority in FYROM. This will then mean that the Slavic minority itself will need to seek alliances with the Albanian majority who will by then most likely be the government of the day.

Robert,all your previous comments have shown to be anti-Macedonian,and pro-Greek.Please,show your identity,don't hide under your...skirt.
Compare Greeces human rights to that of Macedonia.All Macedonian citizens have equal rights to education,religion,culture and language,yes even to form their own political parties.On numerous occasions Greece has been brought to the international court of justice by the indigenous Macedonian minority,on all accounts,Macedonians have won with monetary fines against the Greek government.
Here is how Greece is looked at from outside of Greece then and now;In 1783 one of the founding fathers of the US John Adams said"The project of setting at liberty the whole country of ancient Greece,Macedonia,and Illiricum,and erecting independent Republics in those famous seats,however splendid it may appear in speculation,is not likely to be seriously entertained by the two Empires,because it is impracticable.The Greeks of this day,although they are said to have imagination and ingenuity,are corrupted in their morals to such a degree,as to be faithless,perfidious race,destitute of courage,as well as of those principals of honor and virtue,without which nations can have no confidence in one another,nor be trusted by others".Greeces historical fabrications and most recent ones with the eurozone have proven fatal for the Greek nation.There is one suggestion for my Greek friends;instead of attacking the Republic of Macedonia,please do attack the financial situation in Greece and suggest the remedy to improve the lives of the Greek citizens instead of spending useless time on fabrications of historical lies.Write to the Greek government,and ask them,what has happened to 650 billion dollars,who pocket that money that the ordinary citizens have to pay.Under the present situation,this is the most important subject for you Greeks to discuss,instead of meddle with a sovereign state of the Republic of Macedonia.

Robert,who are you bull shitting?.
When speaking about"Slavic"it means the slavic language,not a nation.Slavic language is spoken by more than 300 million people,and they are;Macedonians,Serbians,Bulgarians,Russians,Ukrainiana,Poles,Slovaks,Belorussians.The Greek propaganda and fabrications of the Macedonian identity has been in gear since 1913.How otherwise will they usurp Macedonian history,and legitimize the illegal occupation of Aegean Macedonia.This same is happening with Bulgaria,they know,they are occupying foreign land.
As for the statues,they are Macedonian and I am proud what Nikola Gruevski has accomplished.
By your comments,you must be on the communist side,because Crvenkovski is just that.Crvenkovski created more than 280,000 unemployed overnight when he sold government owned businesses during his reign in government.Can you imaging this amount of people out of work in a 2.2 million population?.
When Gruevski took over the unemployment was over 40% and now down to 30% even with the economy down the tube all over in Europe.Gruevski has kept Macedonia afloat,in positive territory in comparison to our neighbors.That is an achievement my friend.Look at our southern neighbor Greece,over 3,000 people took their lives for not being able to support their loved ones and themselves.The young people are at 60% out of work,and they are leaving the country.You can't even find a dog or cat on the streets of Athens.

Robert,I just came accross of one very interesting article on internet,I would like to share it with you.It might change your mind on the Macedonian question visa vi Greece.

If you ever visit Rome,please go near the Colosseum,there you will find a Map from the Roman Empire.This Balkan Map in the period of Roman Empire clearly in capital letters is written the name of Macedonia.The Map is built into the facade of the house.It is showing river Danube and bellow it is Mesia,south of it is Tracia,east of it the Black Sea,west of Tracia is Macedonia in capital letters,west of Macedonia is Dalmazia present day Albania.The only area of present day Greece is showing Crete and Epirus west of Macedonia.Romans are not showing a Greek state,because as I have said before,there was never a Greek nation till 1829.Hellas was extinguished back in 338 BC by the Macedonians occupiers.
As I have expressed my self before,true history will bite Greeces and Bulgarias asses.The propaganda against Gruevski by your kind are attempting to fabricate the truth.
By the way,Crvenkovski decided to go to the local elections after the meeting with Fule yesterday.His carrier is over,so is the influence of Greece in Macedonia.Samaras cannot buy Gruevski like he did Crvenkovski.A Serbian business man tried it for 3 million dollars to buy Gruevski.Gruevski will not sell his honor like Crvenkovski has done.Republic of Macedonia is in good hands with Gruevski.

Robert,you are not worth to comment on your idiotic comments,but I will tell you one thing,Macedonia is well and is going on the right direction with Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski.As for the statues,they are very,very nice!I love them!

It seems that some Greek fascists dont understand what they are saying. Calling the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia "Slavs" is derogatory and certainly does not lead to any constructive decisions.

Anyone can have an opinion on the statues in the capital city of Skopje, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I was there in September of 2012, the statues were beautiful and inspiring, much like how I felt about the dozens of statues I have seen in many other cities and countries. I can assure you that I saw no vandalism, urine or feces, and there was no smell. I did hear hundreds of tourists speaking many different languages, and I assumed they were there to see the city, country and maybe the statues. Some of these tourists would probably have been in Greece if it was not for demonstrations and the horrible fascist/nationalistic attacks by Greeks on people who don't "look" Greek.

I am always amazed when someone makes a statement like "The majority of Slav residents in the capital ...", can you please tell me what poll you took, who was asked? I was born in Skopje, most of my family still lives in Skopje, and I can assure you that not one person I know considers themselves "Slavs" or anything else but "Macedonians". I recommend to the Greek people that they fix their broken financial house, stop their ultra nationalistic Greek fascists from attacking innocent people, and recognize the ethnic, religious and cultural minorities in Greece.

Think how the ethnic Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia can use their language, form city governments, open community centres, register political parties and are a part of the official government. Meanwhile in Greece- "EVERY ONE IS GREEK"- this is what you call a DEMOCRACY????

Robert,I suggest you read Andy's comment once more.
We are proud of our ancient lineage,your insolent comments are typical Greek and or Bulgarian,does not bother me at all.Your comments show your frustration with the discovery of your fabrications,you have nowhere to go but acknowledge your lies.
Robert,for your information,Greece is building a large park in Salonika with Alexanders statues hoping to overtake Skopje's 2014.What do you think of it?
Where do they find the funds,they are broke,bankrupt,finito.As I have said before,Greeces politics will take the country to the sewers.Oh wait a minute,they already there.

Robert,I don't believe for a moment that you ever visited Republic of Macedonia.Your crap about Macedonia and statues is just crap.The government of Nikola Gruevski has done more things to improve the lives of the state than what Greece and Bulgaria have done in the last 20 years.Our neighbors are plagued with corruption at every corner you turn.
I told you before,you are not worth answering on your comments because you know nothing about the Balkan history.All you are interested is on attacking Macedonia.Do I sense jalousie of the progress Macedonia is making and your country is going to the sewers?By the way,the unemployment in Macedonia is improving steady while yours is going up,and keeps climbing higher.I will live you with a comment from James Petros who wrote the following;"Who cheers for this football team? Who jeers at the phony Papandreou,the porky face of Venizelos,the blood-sucking Strournaras and Samaras...Politicians smell like the putrid fish that even a starving cat wouldn't touch."Have a nice day!

When I read these comments as a non-involved outsider it is very difficult to sympathize with the positions of the so called Slavic Macedonians. I have traveled a number of time to some Balkan countries and it seems so ludicrousness to always read the rather denigrating attitude of many Macedonians to their neighbors and I really cannot understand how they can pretend to be so culturally different than Bulgarians. Anyone in any way familiar with the foods, music, history etc. of both countries can immediately see that at best "Macedonia" is a regional variation of Bulgaria. Tonight I even read of "the traditional Macedonian salad called Shopska Salat". Are you friggen kidding me! Do Macedonians even know that the Shops are people of the Sofia region? and that the salad originated there? There are so many examples of Macedonians claiming as theirs what has been integral to their neighbors for centuries that it is not hard to understand the anger they generate.

Jay,Shopska salad was not invented in Bulgaria,it shows how much you know.Take for instance"meze",Greeks think it is a Greek word,but in reality it is Turkish.You Greeks, should take a good look at your modern language before you start with your simple-minded about others.The Balkan languages have changed due to different invasions in the area.I guess being a Greek,no surprise here!No matter who you play,it shows in your comment,not as an outsider,but a hypocrite.What can one expect from a Greek?

Frank. Slavic Macedonians are called that to differentiate them from the Albanian Macedonians. The fact that some Macedonians get so excited at hearing the work Slavic (which is what your language is) only goes to highlight your insecurity.On the issue of Bulgarian origin of said Slavic Macedonians you only need to read what some your own leaders have said.
From Wikipedia "Many politicians revealed their bulgarophilness after leaving the political stage as Ljubčo Georgievski and Antonio Milošoski." and as I am sure you are aware there is a long history of what your former leaders have said in the public record about the reality of their Bulgarian origins. Please stop expounding the silly propaganda that is all too familiar in your country.

I don't know, can the Greeks usurp their own ancient history. Most academics tell us no. But some people insist they have a right to usurp, fabricate, and veneer their identity out of whatever history is available to them.

I mean as far as I know from my skopjian friends I visit from time to time, they claim a Slavic origin and frown upon the fabrications of Gruevski's antiquisationism. When I asked my friends about their opinion of the national-fascist Greuvski and his claims to antiquity they simply said that it is easier to build out of ugly grey cement and cheap Italian metal a fabricated history to give both the naive among our Slavic majority and the fascist-nationalists among us a proud past than to tell them that they are from primitive, backward, uneducated Slavs!

They are not a few among the skopjians but they keep their opinions to themselves and only share them with us tourists who visit. They also think that the ugly statues with the unbearable stench of urinated and defecated pedestals is a sign of Gruevskis popularity. Literally going down the sewer.

Yet as the skopjian government controls the people by a police styled state, where media and radio are censored and spied upon by skopjian government appointed loyalists, many of my friends believe that the times are not looking favourable.

I hope that the skopjian government can finally understand how the country's slavic majority feel; torn between 2 identities.

Jay,you are repeating what the former Greek ambassador in a form of protest said to the Macedonian Foreign Ministry.She could not figure it out why foreign visitors did not know in which country they have arrived.The people in the Republic of Macedonia and the people in Northern Greece(Aegean Macedonia)are one and the same.She said"Visitors in Macedonia don't know if they are in Skopje or Greece.They,eat and drink same,and they look alike".She forget as you have,you can create borders to divide geography,but you cannot divide people.People remain same with same identity as in this case the Macedonians.Further,I don't need your type of history because you my friend know absolutely nothing.The Bulgarians have no common blood with the Macedonians,whether in "ancient" or present times.

Bulgarias sour grapes about Macedonia goes back to 1913.They lost Aegean Macedonia to Greece,and were left with 10%of Macedonian territory.Your similarity on both sides of the border reflects that assumption.

Here are some facts for you to masticate if you have time and widen your knowledge.Mario Alinei,Dean Emiritus of the Utrecht University,director of several linguistic reviews and progenitor of the "Continuity Theory"states,"I have to commence by clearing away one of the most absurb consequences of the traditional chronology namely,that of the arrival of the Slavs into the immense area in which they now live.The only logical conclusion can be that the southern branch of the Slavs is the oldest and that from it developed the slavic Western and Eastern branches...Today only a minority of experts support the theory of a late migration of the Slavs.

Recent genetic studies conducted by Oxford University reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians carry only 15.2% of the Slav gene,slightly above modern Greeks and Albanians and less than Serbs and Bulgarians!
They further reveal that todays ethnic Macedonians have the highest amount of the Mediterranean gene of all European people!
This was also confirmed by the University of Madrid studies.In a court of Law,it is genetic proof that is conclusive,I might add!

In summation...Ethnic,yes todays Ethnic Macedonians cannot possibly be of the old Mediterranean substratum if they were slavs arriving in the Balkans in 6th century AD...as the 19th century Western construct asserts!!
Todays ethnic Macedonians are authocthonous to Macedonia,it is very simple!Their language, unintelligable to the ancient Greeks,was a form of proto Macedonian/slav,which then spread outward,becoming more complex as it moved further away from Macedonia.Countless proto Macedonian letters unearthed on the territory of the Republic of Macedonia,and no doubt in Pirin and Aegean Macedonia,though the respective occupiers have no doubt concealed them from the World because it does not fit their lies,attest to this fact!"

Jay,if you are an outsider,this will help you to understand the historical facts,but than again,you could be one of our neighbors who pretend Macedonia is theirs(Greeks and Bulgarian,so did Serbia before)claimed Macedonia is their territory and the people as well.Macedonians can not be tri-ethnics,is there such a thing?Only for occupiers.

That is so funny. How can you be called a Greek when you have a mix of so many haplotypes inclusing African and Turkish. Maybe you should be Afro-Turk Greeks, not just "Greek".

Jay,have you read and understand my comment,or are you jumping blindly?.Read it carefully then answer.The problem with you people is,you don't wait for the verdict before you can accuse the innocent person.These findings are not Macedonian propaganda,they are the findings of well respected Universities.My advise to you is,put the key on the ignition before you put the gear on.In other words,think before you open your mouth.Read it!!

When a large number of the slavic majority reject the national-fascist arguments of Gruevski's antiquisationism, this is a point of contention. The skopjian government has, according to many non-skopjian academics, decided to fabricate an identity based on regional ethno-histories.

The argument that their ever was a slavic element before 700-900 AD is a purely skopjian manifesto. All the archaeological material we've seen in the skopjian museums while on holidays have either been, Illyrian and Paeonian (the actual indigenous people of the Balkans north of the Greek tribes in the Pindos range), Greek, Roman, and then later Bulgarian, etc.

We find it very difficult how the skopjians under Gruevski's leadership consider any of that material culture to be of Yugislav or Slavic origin, apart from the Bulgarian of course.

There is no doubt in the minds of many of my friends in skopjia who I visit from time to time that their slavic ancestry is the product of migrations from the Ukrainian steppes where all the protoslavs originate. Now why this seems to be a problem for the current national-fascist skopjian governemnt?

Our yugislav friends tell us that the skopjian government under Gruevski feel that the slav races were always considered primitive, backward, culture-less, and a total embarrasment to all the slav majority. Yet my friends believe that their slavic heritage is one of pride and full of culture.

In the end the national-fascists in the skopjian government need to settle this with their slavic majority rather than continue this internal identity fued which is crippling the country's EU progress, increasing both unemployment and poverty, and slowly alienating its own slavic people.

Robert,Jay,both of you live in the Greek mythology.
Gruevski is the one who will make the Macedonian people proud.Our neighbors can't stand the progress Republic of Macedonia is making.Look in your backyards,you are plagued with corruption,people are pouring gasoline over them to show their frustration with your corrupt governments,and you find time to criticize the best Prime Minister in the Balkans,how naive!You are showing your frustrations with your own governments because he can't be bought by your mafia style politicians.-
Our rightful name Macedonia is no longer for sale,Gruevski will not sell our people as did Branco and company.As I pointed out,Samaras 130 millions he had robbed from the banks and had stashed in black garbage bags did not bring him any results.

As for the Bulgarians,they are Tatars,and the so-called"Greeks" are Turks and Albanians,and that is a fact!

Peter, if Bulgarians are tartars then you also are, after all a Macedonian is only a Bulgarian that had his mind removed by the Serbs and then stole a name and a false history for hinmself.

Peter, sure I will answer. I am not Greek, Bulgarian or Serb just love the region and people but I find the Macedonian nationalists uniquely strange people. They do not even acknowledge their own history. I have read a number of books written by people of the area in previous decades, even leaders of parties that fought for freedom. There is absolutely no doubt that there are many ethnic groups in the area so one must always be careful with generalizing but it is clear that most of the Slavic speaking peoples of the current "Macedonia" were formally considered as Bulgarians by themselves and virtually everyone else in the world. The proof of this is in the language, food, music, dress and physical appearance, not to mention historical Byzantine records and others. Further proof is in Bulgarian history of the pre-World War 1 period. Macedonians were a major element in the Bulgarian army for a time and were deeply involved with Bulgarian politics, constantly agitating for Bulgaria to "free" them and unite. Only a small element at that time wanted an autonomous political area. Even up until WW2 there were many fighting to leave Yugoslavia and join Bulgria.
An analogy, to me anyway, is Austria, which does not deny it is German speaking, with its own dialect, shares German history, would be part of Germany if not for a few historical flukes, shares German culture but is none the less an independent country going its own way.
I can understand that Macedonians would choose that route but to pretend that you are absolutely not of the Bulgarian ethnic and cultural world and never where is just plain historically inaccurate and false. To say that is to know nothing of early 20th century and previous history.
Now alone come these "Macedonians" claiming to have nothing in common with Bulgarians, be DIRECT descendants of Alexander the Great!, have a unique, separate language! deny what their own grandfathers wrote in books at the time, and insist that everyone else stole their history is so ludicrous that it leaves on speechless. It’s a kind of counter reality that makes one wonder if anything in the world can be true. Which all sounds suspiciously like Stalinist type propaganda? No, I think this trend in Macedonia is more about a political elite left over from Yugoslavia that is trying to hold power for itself and using propaganda to do it. That and the pressure of the Albanian question, the tragic loss of territory and people to Greece in 1913 and economic poverty are blinding people to reality and frankly you are too few in numbers, geographic size and wealth for such behaviour. You need friends, allies and help and you have none anymore, except for American money and secret support for geopolitical reasons.

But to answer your question, I don't think Serbs any longer claim you are Serb, and few Greeks would either, although Greece has it's own difficulties with accepting historical facts too!

Re: genetic study of Balkans. In summary you are all virtually indistinguishable, genetically speaking.

http://www.carswell.com.au/wp-content/documents/homogenous-balkan-analysis.pdf

"Although the linguistic and cultural diversity found in the region could have acted as an important genetic barrier, Balkan populations have been shown to be genetically homogenous,and in concordance with the European genetic continuum, using both autosomal and uniparental markers even with the deep levels of resolution conferred by the large set of markers we typed. Linguistic and other cultural differences were probably introduced into genetically homogeneous groups and/or these cultural barriers were not strong enough to prevent genetic flow between populations."

We continue to find many skopjian people who reject, firstly their slavic origins, especially those who live in the diaspora, and secondly the absolute miserable state the slavic majority finds itself in.

As an outside observer, and very close childhood friend of some exeptional young Skopjian residents, both slav and albanian, I have to say the skopjians are in a very dismal state.

One commenter here, obviously from the diaspora, continues to compare the current Greek financial crisis (not to mention precarious versions of history) with the skopjian one. Either he lives under a rock or fails to miss that the skopjian unemployment is nearly 39% and this is in a supposedly stable economy with financial growth.

Now, as my skopjian friends have correctly stated wouldn't that mean in a stable economy with financial growth we would all have jobs. They also correclty pointed out that, in pre-financial crisis Greece the Greek unemployment rate was a low 7%.

Now, looking through the last 20 odd years we found with my skopjian friends that there has been a constant unemployment rate between 31%-43.9% meaning the skopjian governments has never been able to provide more work for their slav majority.

What this tells us, is that had the skopjian government found itself in a financial crisis like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, etc. unemployment would be anywhere between double and triple of the current figures.

The skopjian capital reeks of misery and the stench of the defecated and urinated ugly statues that dot this grey city has many skopjians especially my childhood friends very upset, depressed, and unlikely to stay here if they can move abroad. They hate that the fascist government of Gruevski has wasted all the states capital on the ugly skopjian 2014 project just to win political points among its slavic majority in a fight between two skopjian identities.

The fascists of Gruevski, according to my close friends, support the pseudo and fabricated antiquisationist identity claiming ancient individuals from the Greeks, and the rest of us they say, stand proud of our slavic heritage.

Time will tell whether the ugly stench emanating from the defecated, urinated, and anti-fascist Gruevski graffitied statues so much hated by many young skopjians, will win the identity race between the Pro-ancient Greek-look-a-like antiquisationists or will the ambiguous skopjia 2014 lose to the majority left wing Slavicists?

Peter, I do not have the studies to which you refer, but when you write "Oxford University reveal that today’s ethnic Macedonians carry only 15.2% of the Slav gene, slightly above modern Greeks and Albanians and less than Serbs and Bulgarians! They further reveal that today’s ethnic Macedonians have the highest amount of the Mediterranean gene of all European people" it doesn't make sense; you are really dealing with small, gradational differences in haplotypes. For example you can have a little more of say haplotype H2 than H1 in one area but they are both subsets of H anyway and do not distinguish a specific gene. One region can have a slightly higher haplotype than another region but doesn’t mean much because it is a statistical average and another region of Europe far way can high a similar average.
Once again the best source is Europedia and there you can see that there is no great differentiation in any of the Balkan DNA. They explain very well how it all works.

Jay with all due respect,these findings are good enough for me,at least these are scientific findings.
I am reading an article written in Russian "Ultima Ratio"
"Proceedings of the Academy of DNA Genealogy,Boston-Moscow-Tsukuba"Volume 5,No.2 February 2012.The authors of these findings are;Anatole A.Kluosov&Pavel Shvarev.
Articles in English;
An emerging pattern of L664 SNP mutation in the Tenths(bearers of DYS388=10),North-Western branch of R1a1
haplotypes.Anatole A.Kluosov.
New Understanding of Western Euroasia in Prehistoric Times by Anton Perdih,Ptr Jandacek.
Lagoda Astrobleme by V.Yurkovets.
I find only one E-Mail for "A.A.Labai"V12189@mail.ru
This E-Mail"Gapogrupa T in Asia and Afrika.Try it,it goes 13700 years back and to 425 years of late.
The DNA in the Balkans according to these two Universities do give accurate information in the difference between our neighbors and us.Macedonias neighbors would disagree with these findings no matter who introduces them,or done the research.Alinei is perfectly right to question Greeces and Bulgarias thesis on the difference between Macedonia on the DNA.
Greece and Bulgaria,as did Serbia before 1944 are arguing on the basis of politics,not on scientific findings.
Jay,have a nice day!

Peter, I located one article but in general we are probably getting above our heads here without being geneticists. Your reference to “New Understanding of Western Eurasia in prehistoric Times” doesn’t really state that Macedonians are different than their neighbors, it states
“There is no evidence concerning the migrations of Slovenes or Macedonians during the 6 th or 7 th Centuries AD. Such mythology of migrations was fabricated between the 15 th and 20 th Century AD and has no documentation. There is ample evidence for the arrival of all of the neighbors of the Slovenes. There is also evidence for the migration of most of the neighbors of the Macedonians.”
That’s probably true because there was no identifiable Macedonian nation until recent times. They were always considered part of the Bulgarian ethnic grouping so how could there be a record of their migration? Its mixing terminology and time lines.

My point was that there are always differences in haplotypes even between two people living next to each other in a Macedonian village. It's a statistical averaging that indicates there is no substantial difference in any Balkan ethnic group outside the gypsies and a few other small groups. There has simply been too much mixing for thousands of years for that. If not every nation would have only one unique haplotype.
Regards

Grank,I agree with you 100%.
Greece and Bulgaria are denying of the existence of Macedenian minority,and the illegal occupation of Macedonian territories since 1913.
Former PM of Greece Mitsotakis admitted in 1995 by saying;"What made me uneasy from the beginning was not the name of this country...the problem for me was how to avoid creating a second minority problem in Western Macedonia.If the problem of the Slavo/Macedonian minority in Western Macedonia is added to the Muslim minority,which sadly,with our errors is a dangerous development,the situation will become unsustanable for Greek external politics.."emphasized the former Greek Premier.
The announcement in the State Department report for Human Rights in 1991 for the first time mentioned the existence of of a Macedonian identity in Greece,was of particular concern to Mitsotakis.It has always been Greece's aim to have Macedonia denounce the Macedonian minority in Greece and force Macedonia to accept International binding agreements that a Macedonian minority in Greece does not exist and to cease all propaganda aimed at Greece.This was key for the Greek-Skopjan defence"!remarked Mitsotakis.It is truly certain that after 1950 no such minority existed in our country,because the citizens with Slavic sentiment who fought on the side of the communist left at the end of the civil war"said Mitsotakis.

Outside to official Athens however,there are some Greek intelectuals who have entirely different views on the name dispute.Athena Skoulariki a sociology professor at the University of Crete,for example says that Greece is tangled in a strategic dead end."In the course of the last 16 years we have lost one battle after another and still have not seriously considered what we are doing wrong.Why is the outside World not supporting the Greek thesis on this issue?Why after so many years of trying has Greece not succeeded in convincing the international public?"asks professor Skoulariki.
According to Skoulariki the Greek arguments are not convincing because it is a fundamental right of all people to freely choose their name."We insist that our neighbor has no right to use the name Macedonia,ignoring the fact that during the 19th and 20th century there was a wider region called Macedonia".
Have a nice day!

As this is imperative to repeat for the sake of my close Slavic and Albanian friends in Skopjia, I need to point out how diasporic skopjians react to the truth of their homeland. It must seem unimaginable for many among the slavic majority that they continue to live in hard, poverty stricken circumstance although the fascist government of Gruevski tells them and his diasporic skopjian apologists the opposite, e.g. that unemployment is going down. This is a skopjian government that has created a fascist styled state of intimidation and coercian while playing tunes from the pied piper that all is well in skojpian society to the masses.

The reason for this is as follows!
We continue to find many skopjian people who reject, firstly their slavic origins, especially those who live in the diaspora, and secondly the absolute miserable state the slavic majority finds itself in.

As an outside observer, and very close childhood friend of some exeptional young Skopjian residents, both slav and albanian, I have to say the skopjians are in a very dismal state.

One commenter here, obviously from the diaspora, continues to compare the current Greek financial crisis (not to mention precarious versions of history) with the skopjian one. Either he lives under a rock or fails to miss that the skopjian unemployment is nearly 39% and this is in a supposedly stable economy with financial growth.

Now, as my skopjian friends have correctly stated wouldn't that mean in a stable economy with financial growth we would all have jobs. They also correclty pointed out that, in pre-financial crisis Greece the Greek unemployment rate was a low 7%.

Now, looking through the last 20 odd years we found with my skopjian friends that there has been a constant unemployment rate between 31%-43.9% meaning the skopjian governments has never been able to provide more work for their slav majority.

What this tells us, is that had the skopjian government found itself in a financial crisis like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, etc. unemployment would be anywhere between double and triple of the current figures.

The skopjian capital reeks of misery and the stench of the defecated and urinated ugly statues that dot this grey city has many skopjians especially my childhood friends very upset, depressed, and unlikely to stay here if they can move abroad. They hate that the fascist government of Gruevski has wasted all the states capital on the ugly skopjian 2014 project just to win political points among its slavic majority in a fight between two skopjian identities.

The fascists of Gruevski, according to my close friends, support the pseudo and fabricated antiquisationist identity claiming ancient individuals from the Greeks, and the rest of us they say, stand proud of our slavic heritage.

Time will tell whether the ugly stench emanating from the defecated, urinated, and anti-fascist Gruevski graffitied statues so much hated by many young skopjians, will win the identity race between the Pro-ancient Greek-look-a-like antiquisationists or will the ambiguous skopjia 2014 lose to the majority left wing Slavicists?

Greece has its own misery, no news there. But my concerns are for the poor, miserable, slav majority of skopjia.

As this is imperative to repeat for the sake of my close Slavic and Albanian friends in Skopjia, I need to point out how diasporic skopjians react to the truth of their homeland. It must seem unimaginable for many among the slavic majority that they continue to live in hard, poverty stricken circumstance although the fascist government of Gruevski tells them and his diasporic skopjian apologists the opposite, e.g. that unemployment is going down. This is a skopjian government that has created a fascist styled state of intimidation and coercian while playing tunes from the pied piper that all is well in skojpian society to the masses.

The reason for this is as follows!
We continue to find many skopjian people who reject, firstly their slavic origins, especially those who live in the diaspora, and secondly the absolute miserable state the slavic majority finds itself in.

As an outside observer, and very close childhood friend of some exeptional young Skopjian residents, both slav and albanian, I have to say the skopjians are in a very dismal state.

One commenter here, obviously from the diaspora, continues to compare the current Greek financial crisis (not to mention precarious versions of history) with the skopjian one. Either he lives under a rock or fails to miss that the skopjian unemployment is nearly 39% and this is in a supposedly stable economy with financial growth.

Now, as my skopjian friends have correctly stated wouldn't that mean in a stable economy with financial growth we would all have jobs. They also correclty pointed out that, in pre-financial crisis Greece the Greek unemployment rate was a low 7%.

Now, looking through the last 20 odd years we found with my skopjian friends that there has been a constant unemployment rate between 31%-43.9% meaning the skopjian governments has never been able to provide more work for their slav majority.

What this tells us, is that had the skopjian government found itself in a financial crisis like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, etc. unemployment would be anywhere between double and triple of the current figures.

The skopjian capital reeks of misery and the stench of the defecated and urinated ugly statues that dot this grey city has many skopjians especially my childhood friends very upset, depressed, and unlikely to stay here if they can move abroad. They hate that the fascist government of Gruevski has wasted all the states capital on the ugly skopjian 2014 project just to win political points among its slavic majority in a fight between two skopjian identities.

The fascists of Gruevski, according to my close friends, support the pseudo and fabricated antiquisationist identity claiming ancient individuals from the Greeks, and the rest of us they say, stand proud of our slavic heritage.

Time will tell whether the ugly stench emanating from the defecated, urinated, and anti-fascist Gruevski graffitied statues so much hated by many young skopjians, will win the identity race between the Pro-ancient Greek-look-a-like antiquisationists or will the ambiguous skopjia 2014 lose to the majority left wing Slavicists?

Palmer,you are at best an idiot.Twenty years ago in Macedonia the unemployment was at 0% to Greeces 7%.
Today,Macedonia is doing lot better than you and your patriots in Athens.How does it grab you of more than 3,200 Greeks who commit suicides due to unemployment in Greece?.Greece will be the first country to go under with Cyprus.This to me shows,Greeks are the best fabricators,unfortunately it did ketch-up with you,you have no place to hide but the hole you have excavate.Do I smell frustrations that you cannot get out off?.
Your comments on this site are pure idiotic,and only an idiot will continue writing them as you have,get a life!

I came across a great article on Wikipedia under "Macedonian nationalism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_nationalism

It sums up very well everything I have concluded as well from my experiences and readings.

Includes " until 20th century and beyond the majority of the Slavic-speaking population of the region was identified as Macedono-Bulgarian or simply as Bulgarian"

" in Macedonia the Bulgarophobia increased almost to the level of State ideology"

" Meanwhile, the Yugoslav historiography had borrowed parts from the histories of its neighboring states to construct the Macedonian identity, having reached not only the times of medieval Bulgaria, but even Alexander the Great.[29] In 1969, the first History of the Macedonian nation was published. Most Macedonians' attitude to Communist Yugoslavia, where they were recognised as a distinct nation for the first time, became positive. The Macedonian Communist elites were traditionally more pro-Serb and pro-Yugoslav than those in the rest of the Yugoslav Republics"

"Such antiquization is facing criticism by academics as it demonstrates feebleness of archaeology and of other historical disciplines in public discourse, as well as a danger of marginalization"

And the real answer to the mystery of this weird nationalism " then annexed by Serbia, part of the young locals repressed by the Serbs, tried to find a separate way of ethnic development". In other words if they said they were Bulgarian the Serbs killed them so they said they were "Macedonian" and over time came to believe it themselves!

Well, it's actually rather scary as reminds one of a cult and we know what followers of weird cults usually end up committing.

Palmer,once more,you know history from grade two.
Your idiotic comments are just that,idiotic from an idiot.

Once again, the diasporic slavs, supposedly firm supporters of the fascist skopjian government of Gruevski, spill their slavic venom for misunderstanding their own history. And of course they think Greece is behind the slav majority misery of created by their skopjian government!

Greece has its own misery, no news there. But my concerns are for the poor, miserable, slav majority of skopjia.

As this is imperative to repeat for the sake of my close Slavic and Albanian friends in Skopjia, I need to point out how diasporic skopjians react to the truth of their homeland. It must seem unimaginable for many among the slavic majority that they continue to live in hard, poverty stricken circumstance although the fascist government of Gruevski tells them and his diasporic skopjian apologists the opposite, e.g. that unemployment is going down. This is a skopjian government that has created a fascist styled state of intimidation and coercian while playing tunes from the pied piper that all is well in skojpian society to the masses.

The reason for this is as follows!
We continue to find many skopjian people who reject, firstly their slavic origins, especially those who live in the diaspora, and secondly the absolute miserable state the slavic majority finds itself in.

As an outside observer, and very close childhood friend of some exeptional young Skopjian residents, both slav and albanian, I have to say the skopjians are in a very dismal state.

One commenter here, obviously from the diaspora, continues to compare the current Greek financial crisis (not to mention precarious versions of history) with the skopjian one. Either he lives under a rock or fails to miss that the skopjian unemployment is nearly 39% and this is in a supposedly stable economy with financial growth.

Now, as my skopjian friends have correctly stated wouldn't that mean in a stable economy with financial growth we would all have jobs. They also correclty pointed out that, in pre-financial crisis Greece the Greek unemployment rate was a low 7%.

Now, looking through the last 20 odd years we found with my skopjian friends that there has been a constant unemployment rate between 31%-43.9% meaning the skopjian governments has never been able to provide more work for their slav majority.

What this tells us, is that had the skopjian government found itself in a financial crisis like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, etc. unemployment would be anywhere between double and triple of the current figures.

The skopjian capital reeks of misery and the stench of the defecated and urinated ugly statues that dot this grey city has many skopjians especially my childhood friends very upset, depressed, and unlikely to stay here if they can move abroad. They hate that the fascist government of Gruevski has wasted all the states capital on the ugly skopjian 2014 project just to win political points among its slavic majority in a fight between two skopjian identities.

The fascists of Gruevski, according to my close friends, support the pseudo and fabricated antiquisationist identity claiming ancient individuals from the Greeks, and the rest of us they say, stand proud of our slavic heritage.

Time will tell whether the ugly stench emanating from the defecated, urinated, and anti-fascist Gruevski graffitied statues so much hated by many young skopjians, will win the identity race between the Pro-ancient Greek-look-a-like antiquisationists or will the ambiguous skopjia 2014 lose to the majority left wing Slavicists?

Why do some people say that the Greeks claim the Macedonians are Greeks? I never see that, I have read that the Greeks say some of the Macedonians are of Greek heritage which is true, same in Bulgaria and Albania but most Greek writings I have read say that the Macedonians are mostly Bulgarians. Which I have to say, is pretty clear from the historical sources, including many in Macedonia as you well know.

You also have to be more careful with the genetic references. I have done more reading on this subject now and the recent reports and tests over the last couple of years have clearly solved this riddle.
There are many corroborating reports showing the entire break down of the haplotypes and origins of all the Balkans. The Slavic component is much less than many thought and the original haplotypes going back several thousand years and more are very predominant especially in Croatia, Albania and Slovenia the so called Asian haplotypes almost do not exist anywhere in the Balkans. I have to tell you the supposed difference in Macedonia, Bulgaria and Northern Greek DNA is almost none.
If there is any difference it is that they can detect a few percentage higher of the Germanic haplotypes in Macedonia, probably from the Goths. Essentially you all have the same genetic background in the Balkans there is no way to credibly argue anything else now. Just go look at the detailed lists of haplotypes from the test results, don't bother quoting some old article from a Professor in some minor college.

Anyway, it always comes down to the same argument when dealing with Macedonians: they pretend that everyone wants to steal the country, they make up silly history, they find a couple of obscure references and ignore what their own ancestors wrote, they ignore all other references and data and they desecrate archaeological and historical sites if they don't like what they find.

The one that annoys me the most is the total rejection that Macedonian Nationalists have for even basic logic. They can somehow write things like Macedonians are totally different than Bulgarians. Yet, when it's pointed out that the same people live on both sides of the Bulgarian/ Macedonian border like the Shops so how can they be different? They just ignore. By the way just go to Pirin (so called Bulgarian Macedonia) and tell them that they are not Bulgarian! 99% will laugh at you.

When you point out what some of their own leaders and writers wrote in previous decades, they ignore. When you quote facts from dozens of reputable books and historical sources all they do is come up even more outlandish statements.

Well, like I wrote before, it's really makes no personal difference to me but the arguments of the nationalists are just so much nonsense. In fact you don't really need to even go beyond the writings of the Byzantines. To them there was no such thing as Macedonians and there weren't any until Tito decided there were.

Anyway, what happens if the nationalist cult is successful? At best you end up with a tiny, landlocked country of almost no population in near civil war with the Albanians, totally corrupt administration and in deep, unrecoverable poverty. With fictional history and Bulgarian language and culture.
( I read a good quote that "Macedonian is really Bulgarian typed on a Serbian typewriter"!) That's the goal? That's the best you can hope for?

If you didn't have all these "enemies" all around you to focus on and had to concentrate on real issue like the economy and hope what would happen? Everyone would leave I suspect.

I would really like some of the nationalists to detail what future they see in this hopeless situation, or are ALL of you living in the diaspora already?

Once again, the diasporic slavs, supposedly firm supporters of the fascist skopjian government of Gruevski, spill their slavic venom for misunderstanding their own history. And of course they think Greece is behind the slav majority misery of created by their skopjian government!

Greece has its own misery, no news there. But my concerns are for the poor, miserable, slav majority of skopjia.

As this is imperative to repeat for the sake of my close Slavic and Albanian friends in Skopjia, I need to point out how diasporic skopjians react to the truth of their homeland. It must seem unimaginable for many among the slavic majority that they continue to live in hard, poverty stricken circumstance although the fascist government of Gruevski tells them and his diasporic skopjian apologists the opposite, e.g. that unemployment is going down. This is a skopjian government that has created a fascist styled state of intimidation and coercian while playing tunes from the pied piper that all is well in skojpian society to the masses.

The reason for this is as follows!
We continue to find many skopjian people who reject, firstly their slavic origins, especially those who live in the diaspora, and secondly the absolute miserable state the slavic majority finds itself in.

As an outside observer, and very close childhood friend of some exeptional young Skopjian residents, both slav and albanian, I have to say the skopjians are in a very dismal state.

One commenter here, obviously from the diaspora, continues to compare the current Greek financial crisis (not to mention precarious versions of history) with the skopjian one. Either he lives under a rock or fails to miss that the skopjian unemployment is nearly 39% and this is in a supposedly stable economy with financial growth.

Now, as my skopjian friends have correctly stated wouldn't that mean in a stable economy with financial growth we would all have jobs. They also correclty pointed out that, in pre-financial crisis Greece the Greek unemployment rate was a low 7%.

Now, looking through the last 20 odd years we found with my skopjian friends that there has been a constant unemployment rate between 31%-43.9% meaning the skopjian governments has never been able to provide more work for their slav majority.

What this tells us, is that had the skopjian government found itself in a financial crisis like Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, etc. unemployment would be anywhere between double and triple of the current figures.

The skopjian capital reeks of misery and the stench of the defecated and urinated ugly statues that dot this grey city has many skopjians especially my childhood friends very upset, depressed, and unlikely to stay here if they can move abroad. They hate that the fascist government of Gruevski has wasted all the states capital on the ugly skopjian 2014 project just to win political points among its slavic majority in a fight between two skopjian identities.

The fascists of Gruevski, according to my close friends, support the pseudo and fabricated antiquisationist identity claiming ancient individuals from the Greeks, and the rest of us they say, stand proud of our slavic heritage.

Time will tell whether the ugly stench emanating from the defecated, urinated, and anti-fascist Gruevski graffitied statues so much hated by many young skopjians, will win the identity race between the Pro-ancient Greek-look-a-like antiquisationists or will the ambiguous skopjia 2014 lose to the majority left wing Slavicists