EurActiv Logo
EU news & policy debates
- across languages -
Click here for EU news »
EurActiv.com Network

BROWSE ALL SECTIONS

Greece, Macedonia to meet with little expectation

Printer-friendly version
Send by email
Published 22 February 2012

Greek and Macedonian leaders are to meet on the sidelines of next week's EU summit amid few indications that they will make in headway in the dispute over national identity that has prevented Macedonia from starting accession talks since becoming an EU candidate seven years ago. 

Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos recently invited his Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski to meet in Brussels during the 1-2 March Summit, the first between the two since Papademos was appointed on 11 November 2011. Greece is expected to hold elections before Easter.

"For the name issue, our position is that it should be resolved through meaningful negotiations under the auspices of the UN; therefore, I encourage you to work towards this goal in a constructive manner," Papademos wrote in a letter to Gruevski.

Macedonia said it "welcomed the consent" of Greece for holding a high-level bilateral meeting, hinting that Skopje has been more active than Athens in initiating such contacts. However, until yesterday afternoon (21 February), Macedonia's mission to the EU was unaware if Gruevski would attend.

Greece and Macedonia have been locked in a dispute over the smaller country's constitutional name since it became independent from the crumbling Yugoslavia in 1991. Greece, which once imposed a punishing embargo on its neighbour, claims the name implies territorial ambitions on its northern province of the same name.

ICJ ruling and NATO bid

The International Court of Justice in The Hague ruled in December that by blocking Macedonia's NATO bid in April 2008, Greece breached a bilateral agreement signed in 1995. Under the accord, Greece said it would not prevent its neighbour's accession to international organisations so long as it is referred to as "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM).

In the meantime, Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov wrote to the heads of state and government of NATO countries, asking them to "repair the injustice" of the 2008 summit. In view of the next NATO summit due in May in Chicago, Ivanov asked the 28 leaders to take into account the ICJ ruling and accept his country as NATO member.

Following the ICJ ruling, Macedonia could realistically expect to be accepted as NATO member under the name the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

Greek President Karolos Papoulias met with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen on 16 February and reportedly conveyed the message that his country wanted to reach a "mutually acceptable solution" over the name dispute. Reportedly, Papoulias also complained that Skopje persisted in appropriating history and even asked Rasmussen to help overcoming the problem.

PM avoids Commissioner

Papademos and Gruevski will put a brave face and meet, but it is doubtful that they would make any progress on their name dispute, one diplomatic source told EurActiv.

Another diplomat saw the glass as half-full: even if the meeting turns out to be a photo opportunity, that would already be something positive, the EU source said.

The reason for the pessimism stems for the latest visit of UN negotiator over the name dispute, MatthewNimetz, who met on Monday Gruevski in Skopje.

According to European Commission sources, the meeting was disappointing. Nimetz is due in Athens today.

Asked if Gruevski was going to hold meetings at the European Commission, a source from the EU executive said no such request had been made. The official added that Gruevski was avoiding visiting the Commission and seeing Enlargement Commissioner Štefan Füle, who has been very critical of recebt nationalistic actions in Skopje, seen in Athens as "provocations".

Next steps: 
  • 1-2 March: EU Summit in Brussels and anticipated meeting between the Greek and Macedonian prime ministers.
EurActiv.com

COMMENTS

  • This article could have been a lot more balanced had the journalist not used so many anonymous sources and also noted that the Greek PM Papademos took three months to respond to a meeting request made via letter by the Macedonian PM Gruevski.

    By :
    Meto Koloski
    - Posted on :
    22/02/2012
  • Who writes these pieces? One EU source said this, one diplomatic source said this, really? Why don't you really do some investigative journalism and publish your sources? Whoever gave you your journalism degree really made a mistake. Greece's PM Papademos, after three-months, finally responded to the Macedonian PM's letter to meet, so this meeting was at the request of PM Gruevski and not PM Papademos

    By :
    Tome
    - Posted on :
    22/02/2012
  • Mr. Koloski

    If anything the article was biased toward FYROM. It called your country "Macedonia" rather than the UN neutral "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia"... references you as "smaller" (as if to say Greece is bullying you)... makes no reference to the fact you used to call yourselves Bulgarians....like the absurd ICJ verdict makes absolutely no mention to the clauses in the 1995 agree that also stated not to steal our history or threaten our borders.... and makes no mention about FYROM's sudden change into "ancient Macedonians" and irredentist "united Macedonia" rhetoric.

    Identity is a human right. Not identity theft.

    "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" - Kiro Gligorov, FYROM's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    22/02/2012
  • 'We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great.' - FYROM'S Ambassador Ljubica Acevshka, speech to US representatives, Washington DC, January 22 1999

    'We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.' - FYROM´s Ambassador to Canada Gyordan Veselinov, Ottawa Citizen Newspaper, February 24 1999

    "The whole story about Ancient Macedonia sounds undoubtedly very nice. However, there is a great problem, a huge hole of about 2,000 years during which we have neither oral nor written tradition, nor a single scientific argument” - former Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski, FOCUS News, 31 March 2008

    "The creation of the Macedonian nation, for almost half of a century, was done in a condition of single-party dictatorship. In those times, there was no difference between science and ideology, so the “Macedonian” historiography, unopposed by anybody, comfortably performed a selection of the historic material from which the “Macedonian” identity was created. There is nothing atypical here for the process of the creation of any modern nation, except when falsification from the type of substitution of the word “Bulgarian” with the word “Macedonian” were made." -former FYROM foreign minister Denko Maleski
    http://www.utrinski.com.mk/?ItemID=C7A7DD4ECD45C946BF6573284EC01164

    etc...

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    22/02/2012
  • I thought it was a dispute over the name and not the national identity, but then who knows...

    By :
    Goce Mitevski
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • Mr. Koloski,

    In all fairness Mr Papademos has had more pressing financing issues of late, but what is obvious for the past 20 years Greek Governments can afford to wait and wait on this naming issue, probably forever as far as they're concerned.

    It's obvious that there is no real urgency or even endeavour to solve this so called name issue on the part of the Hellenic Republic. Any reasonable person, let alone any competent investigative journalist would conclude that the only loser in this saga is Macedonia, prolonging a resolution only further impedes development, prosperity and ultimately stability in Macedonia not Greece.

    The matter of Macedonian instability is the only real goal Athens has and has ever had, their motto is keep them poor (no EU) and keep them insecure (no NATO) and intern the Albanians will take care of the rest. Unfortunately for them, everything they have wished upon the people of Macedonia is now besetting them and it's all of their own making, they can't blame Tito on this one!

    This is the real story and surprisingly no journalist has even entertained the idea of being objective let alone critical of Greek politics in this regard.

    By :
    Kiril
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • Stop usurping and falsifying Greek History and trying to pass it off as your own

    In the 1930s you're Bulgarians, but somehow magically 20 years later you are 'descendants of the Ancient Macedonians and of MEGAS ALEXANDROS' thanks to Tito's actions

    Stop the lies and propoganda you clueless people, and maybe we can get on with our lives

    By :
    Mark
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • In the late 1920's most Greeks in Macedonia where refugees from Anatolia, 600,000 infact and all proudly regarded themselves Pontian or other, but certainly not Macedonian.

    The Greek Government of the time even published a Macedonian reader and guess what it wasn't even in Greek.

    70 years later you are all Macedonians. Delusions can be treated, but lies are inherent, think about it.

    By :
    Kiril
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @Kiril

    In the 1920s the majority of ancestors self-identified as ethnic Bulgarians. It wasn't until Communist dictator's Tito's renaming in 1944 that most of you "discovered" you were "ethnic Macedonians". It wasn't until a few years ago you "discovered" you were related to ancient Macedonian. Why don't you every mention that Kiril?

    "The political and military leaders of the Slavs of Macedonia at the turn of the century seem not to have heard Misirkov's call for a separate Macedonian national identity; they continued to identify themselves in a national sense as Bulgarians rather than Macedonians." - US Anthropologist Loring Danforth, "The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World", Princeton Univ Press, December 1995

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • An irony about the situation that virtually everyone has missed (including the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians living in ancient Paeonia)...

    By claiming to be related to ancient Macedonians, and ancient Macedonians self-identifying Greeks, the former ethnic Bulgarians are now effectively claiming to be Greeks.

    Identity is a human right. Not identity theft.

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • LOL Obviously a lot of Greeks came from the Black Sea region in the population exchange between Greece and Turkey

    But to say there was no Greeks in Northern Greece pre 1912 is one of the dumbest things ive ever heard you people spew from your mouths

    Read a history book and not a Yugoslav one

    By :
    Mark
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @Paeonia;

    Paeonia,don't forget,you are not Greek yourself.
    In Ancient times there was no country called Greece.There were City States,whereas Macedonia existed as a nation with a clear identity.
    Present day Greece was re-named by Prince Otto for his own glorification.In 1856-58 Greece adopted the new language.Durring that time the Albanian language was spoken more widly.
    Remember,in Ancient times Athens was populated by Albanians,not Afro-Asians that you claim being connected to.
    Greeces claim that the Macedonians came to this area in the 6th century it is absurd.The facts point otherwise,the protoslavs went outwards not inwards,and the fact that the Macedonian language uses many ancient words today is proof we are same people.
    For you to claim we are Bulgarians and the Macedonians in Northern Greece are Greek,does not make any sense.
    The people in Aegean Macedonia and those in Western Bulgaria and South east of Albania and those in the Republic of Macedonia are one and the same people.
    Your Greek propaganda has no leg to stand on this issue.
    Today,part of Macedonia bis free of occupiers and are able to tell the World that you and others are fabricating history for the purpose of denying the indigenouse Macedonians their rights to their heritage,language and identity.It is not based on historical truth,it is purely political football.
    Greece is using this absurd notion as did Hitler in his claims of Arian superiority.

    By :
    Peter
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @Peter

    Sorry. Many well accredited 3rd party historians disagree with the extremists views of the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of FYROM. As far as a know, not a single historian on earth (other than in FYROM) claims ancient Macedonians were Slavic or had anything to do you FYROM.
    http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    As for your apologists, that they all now dishonestly pretend not to notice that after being "recognized" FYROM decided to change its identity into "ancient Macedonians" (and the "united Macedonia" irredentist language) is a testimonial to their prejudices against Greek.

    Identity is a human right. Not identity theft. The former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians living in Paeonia need to find their own identity and stop harassing their neighbor. Its far from just Greeks that say the majority of people in what is today FYROM used to self-identify as Bulgarians in the early 20th century. Even your own past supporters say it.

    "The political and military leaders of the Slavs of Macedonia at the turn of the century seem not to have heard Misirkov's call for a separate Macedonian national identity; they continued to identify themselves in a national sense as Bulgarians rather than Macedonians." - US Anthropologist Loring Danforth, "The Macedonian Conflict: Ethnic Nationalism in a Transnational World", Princeton Univ Press, December 1995 (currently listed of FYROM nationalist "human rights" website MHRMI as a historical expert)

    .....

    "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" - Kiro Gligorov, FYROM's first President, Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @peter

    And you don't forget I AM Greek. Your fascist statement "don't forget,you are not Greek yourself." is just another example of the pure hypocrisy found amongst the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians of FYROM (and even some of its apologists) You fascist fanatics deny our very ethnic identity because even you know ancient Macedonians self-identified as Greeks.

    IMRO leadership that sounded much like you Peter colluded in war crimes when Axis occupied Greece during WW2. Later during our communist civil war once again IMRO committed atrocities against Greeks (with the backing of communists this time)

    At the time western powers fully backed Greece on this name issue (both militarily and morally) The fact FYROM ultra nationalists like you constantly brush over your ethnic Bulgarian past only further shows the extreme nationalism present in FYROM today.

    This (US) Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece" - US State Department Dec, 1944 (Foreign Relations Vol. VIII Washington D.C. Circular Airgram - 868.014/26)http://tinyurl.com/nel46d

    Much like you manipulate the facts here, FYROM government are constantly criticized by media watchdogs for oppressing free speech in FYROM today. This will continue in perpetuity since FYROM ultra nationalist have to perpetually oppress information about their ethnic Bulgarian past to keep up their state propaganda. Those that collude with FYROM government are colluding with a growing fascism.

    http://hetq.am/eng/news/11022/seemo-concerned-at-efforts-to-curb-press-freedom-in-republic-of-macedonia.html

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @Peter.

    Identity is a human right. Not identity theft Peter. You had a Bulgarian identity but you lost it to your hate of Greek.

    Ancient Macedonians were self-identified Greeks that identified with Hellenism not Slavs. This is a historical fact that will never change. Ancient Macedonian artifacts will never rewrite themselves from Greek into the Bulgarian dialect the communists renamed "Macedonian". So no matter how this works out, no amount of bizarre "recognition" will ever change history. The artifacts will forever stand as a monument to the racism and shame of FYROM ultra nationalists and any of its apologists. (who now disgustingly pretend not to notice your change into "ancient Macedonian" and open threats to our homeland)

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • @Peter

    And "don't forget" ancient macedonains self-identified Greeks dear Peter.

    "Men of Athens... In truth I would not tell it to you if I did not care so much for all Hellas (Greece); I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery. " (Speech of Alexander I of Macedonia upon being admitted to the Greek-only Olympic games as a self-identifying Greek, Herodotus, Histories, 9.45, ed. A. D. Godley)

    Something that ultra nationalist extremists in FYROM have entirely missed (as well as your apologists who clearly have prejudices against Greeks), by now suddenly claiming to be related to ancient Macedonians, and ancient Macedonians themselves self-identifying as Greeks... you are now (unwittingly) effectively claiming to be Greeks.

    Identity is a human right. Not identity theft.

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    23/02/2012
  • "Identity is a human right. Not identity theft."

    Therefore hypothetically speaking, a human called Jovan, whose European ancestors came to Macedonia 1700 years ago and now wishes to identify as Macedonain is completely justified.

    With that logic in mind, a human lets call him Ioanni, whose Near Eastern (Anatolia) ancestors came to Macedonia 90 years ago and wishes to identify as Macedonian is also justified.

    Rightly, both are Macedonian if they wish, but when one "Ioanni" denies the other "Jovan" his right of self identity and usurps that identity for his exclusive use then this can only be considered theft.

    Then one must ask who are the real thieves?

    P.S. Lets hope Ioanni and those like him are only delusional, at least they can be treated!

    By :
    Kiril
    - Posted on :
    24/02/2012
  • @Kiril

    Europeans moved to America. This doesn't not give the right to steal the identity of indigenous native Indians. And lets not pretend you've been calling yourselves Macedonians for 1700 years. FYROM nationalists had an identity. Ethnic Bulgarians. There was no good reason to bizarrely attempt to steal the identity of Greeks. Whether you like it or not ancient macedonians self-identified as Greeks. You are effectively now claiming to be Greeks. Identity is human rights not identity theft.

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    24/02/2012
  • @Kiril

    FYROM utlra nationalists constantly claim the right to self-determination an absolute (apparently they believe stealing the identity of Greeks is a human rights). Using their logic of having lived in the region gives them the right to steal someone else's identity, then Turkish people can call themseles "Ethnic Macedonians" too and claim parts of FYROM as "Slavic occupied Macedonia" as FYROM natioanlists constantly claim of Macedonia Greece.

    I would also note the FYROM government withdrew recognition of Taiwan a few years ago when they though it was in their national interests to support China. Why don't the hypocrites in FYROM recognize the self-determinism of the republic of China? Don't you claim its just a name? Why do your own alleged principles change with Taiwan?

    By :
    Paeonia is not Macedonia
    - Posted on :
    24/02/2012
  • Hi all,

    is there anyone out there who thinks that we can just respect eachother and get along? My family is from Macedonia/ Republic of Macedonia/ Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia/ FYROM/ or whatever you personally feel like calling it (but I grew up in Canada). A really good friend of mine is Greek. He's a really nice guy and I'm pretty nice as well and if we can get along, I don't see why others can't from our countries. Can we say that while many will disagree about the origins and history of the two countries and their people, we can put that aside for the sake of moving on? No one chooses what borders they're born within and while it's fine to be proud of your country, why would you dislike someone else for something they didn't even choose? And this applies to ***both countries***.

    So as lame as this sounds, can we agree to disagree and just be good neighbours to each other?

    By :
    Kristina31
    - Posted on :
    29/02/2012
Gruevski: avoids the Commission
Background: 

Of all the hurdles standing in the way of Macedonia's EU accession, the so-called 'name dispute' with Greece appears to be the biggest (see EurActiv LinksDossier on 'EU-Macedonia relations').

Seen from Athens, the official name used by Skopje – Republic of Macedonia – is an open challenge to the Greek region of Macedonia. In reprisal, Greece pledged to veto Macedonia's participation in international organisations, including the EU, until the issue is resolved.

During NATO's Bucharest Summit of 4 April 2008, Croatia and Albania were invited to join while Macedonia's bid was put on ice. This was perceived as a serious blow to Skopje's hopes. It also sparked harsh criticism of the Greek stance, as it was seen as a breach of the 1995 UN Interim Accord.

Under the Interim Accord, Greece dropped economic sanctions against the FYROM in exchange for an agreements by the country to drop the use of an ancient Macedonian flag as its own, and amend the articles of its constitution which could be seen as hinting at claims to Greek territory.

More on this topic

More in this section

Advertising

Videos

Video General News

Euractiv Sidebar Video Player for use in section aware blocks.

Video General Promoted 3

Euractiv Sidebar Video Player for use in section aware blocks.

Advertising

Advertising