Barroso lashes out at British Tories over eurozone crisis

"The sooner Britain packs up their "financial services" and leaves the Europe they never have been a real part of, the better for all concerned"

Quite agree. We never wanted your federal utopia, and the sooner we leave the rest of you to the devices of the likes of Barroso and other non elected no hopers the better.

As the founder of the UK's "soon-to-be-privatised-a-la the-US-non-health-service" noted: tory-vermin

that's what they are, that is what they will always be - self interested, corrupt (MP expenses scandal anybody?) little islanders.

In the case of the "UK finance sector" this might find life much more difficult in the future - the old days of "light touch regulation" (= no regulation) are coming to an end - be interesting to see how big the sector is - not forgetting that this sector funds the self same tory-vermin party.

OH!! The funny thing is that when they go to Spain, they change their attitude, looking for new friends. They come to you and start talking to you. That happened to me the other day in the beach, it was summerday!! But, if I do that in England, they'll just stare at me, and wondering what the hell am I doing there, with them!! :) I don't mind, I don't miss anything. I don't feel comfortable when I'm surrounded of British people. I don't have that feeling when being with American, French, Dutch, Mexican... people. Everyone, but a brit. :)

I think, more to the point, Britain should be wary that there are many, many people in the EU who may share Manuel's frustration. It's not just about some guy in Cambridge. Dear Britain, that shoe won't feel so good when it's on the other foot.

Also, the Euro (the currency of hundreds of millions of Europeans) was & is not a "bad idea" and that is _not_ why the UK did not join. Probably more to do with protecting the funny business that goes on the "City of London".

Why is Europe/European almost a dirty word in the UK until you want somewhere nicer to live and holiday?

President Barroso has done well to express a modicum of the frustration (to put it politely) that many Europeans feel about our supposedly fellow Europeans, the British.

Pat says "Most people in Britain are very happy to be part of Europe" which of course is totally untrue as indicated by any poll conducted by anybody, including the EU itself (Eurobarometer)

Manuel - if you need examples of looking only after one's interests go look at the French, the Germans and many others. Perhaps you don't read deep enough into their policies towards the EU. At least the British eurosceptics are honest and don't hide their agenda.

@Mike Parr - The rest of the EU aren't exactly squeaky clean either!

"The European Union's anti-fraud body recovered a record €691 million last year, it said on Tuesday, but expressed concern that public bodies were getting more reluctant to tip it off for fear of damaging national reputations".

http://bit.ly/MXwILB

The population of the UK demands a vote in/out of Europe this has been denied to us. We gain nothing from the EU. We have lost much. BILLIONS of Pounds going to places which have nothing to do with us. EU Regulations and law imposed on us without our consent. Migrants imposed on us putting severe stress on housing education health services. Jobs taken up by migrants much needed by the indigenous population.EU government always on the scrounge for more UK money to prop up an idiot currency whilst the EU banks are out of control.

I am British but have always seen myself as a global citizen and am strongly in favour greater political and economic union. However, I am very conscious that we have not developed robust structures of governance that give us confidence in how such a union could work. This does not mean we should not continue to aspire to such a thing. It means we must continue to strive forward with enthusiasm and not be distracted by those who try to take advantage of the disinformation and look to exploit weaknesses in the system where they can.

The financial crisis, while having a significant impact today, represents a small moment in history less comparable with the world wars that proceeded the Union or even the various sickness epidemics of the past. A sense of perspective is needed. The EU has opened up many opportunities for people across all its members. Likewise, so did and so will the EURO. Many countries around the world have benefited from it and not just through financial manipulation but bricks and mortar.

I could not agree more that the level of ignorance and misinformation about what the European Union is and how it works is incredible. Pages and pages of newspaper articles and hours of TV time is spent having arguments based on false premises. These debates sound intelligent, the logic is often sound but they are in fact completely unrelated to reality. Until, this is addressed, we will not be able to have sensible debates.

Interesting reading these comments (from an independent and prosperous land south of the Equator). Sounds like tension between European nations and their formerly peaceful and self-governing island neighbour Britain have reached boiling point (again). Why on earth are Britons even discussing a Brussels driven takeover?

Why do those unique small European countries continue allowing themselves to be dominated by Germany and lately, France? Obviously those two countries would totally domineer Britain too, given half a chance. It's ridiculous to compare the formulation of the United States with failing, multi-national Europe.

What a worry is this big-headed Barroso chap. Is he waiting in line for nomination as supreme ruler of a unified Europe which would then have conquered Britain without firing a single shot? Goodness what a total disaster is Europe, it sounds bloody awful. Britain should insist the European "Union" be shown a clean pair of heels before its too late.

Pat
" Barroso is right about one thing - we shouldn't forget history. Democratic principles should be fought for...and the British have always been at the heart of that argument."

British people least of all forget history , WW1 and WWII . Forgetting history , is part of what the EU is about .
What Democratic principles ? The EU does not like democracy in practice , only in name , and has no principles .
The British are fighting for their democracy , to be Represented by a British government alone , with only British laws .

I have been Eurosceptic since before Britain joined the EEC . In the 1975 referendum , I voted for Britain to leave the EEC . I strongly opposed Maastricht and ceased to contribute to the conservative party after John major signed . If the EU had followed the British Government's concept of the EU becoming a group of self governing sovereign states in a confederation or commonwealth , the EU might not have been in the death throws state it finds itself in today .
Many British people and other EU nationals have scarcely ever set foot outside their own country , except perhaps to go on holiday .
I have been resident in Italy a number of years and speak fluent Italian . My daughter is married to a most charming German with a huge sense of humour .
They live in Berlin , where he works for a member of the prsent government . My daughter speaks fluent German and teaches English in a school . We are not little Englanders , I have friends in nearly every European country .

In my view the original EU concept suited in its time , but does not today . Not only is Pat wrong about British people favouring the EU , but I can tell you that it applies to many people in other countries , who are not as vocal as the British . The British people were lied too and cheated into joining and remaining in the EEC , the eventual EU was a closely guarded secret .

The state of indebtedness within the Eurozone is beyond salvation . The bailouts are as a log in the ocean to a drowning man . Short of annulling all the debt and bankrupting banks and investors (who deserve it), I don't see any way out of the present impass and perhaps the eventual collapse of the EU/Eurozone .

If the Єuro is a "mistake" then so are the US$, Cnd$, Aus$, Russia Rubble &c.

The whole idea behind the new "Europe" is a (con)federation strong enough in every way to keep France, Germany, &c. working together and/or competitively WITHOUT armed conflict erupting. To date this objective has been met for more than 60 years; I call that a measure of success.

That "Europe" is besot with growing pains is obvious; I am a strong critic of the go-go expansion that has brought in too many new, too fast, but I am NOT against progress towards a continent that trades the best of each for the good of all, and thus lives in peace with all. In the 21st century no British gunboats are in the Agean Sea to protect "financial services".

I review points I have attempted to make in the past:

1) "Europe" has enough on its plate now without lecturing Ukraine and others who have their OWN problems; problems that are equal in magnitude but different in nature to those faced by an overextended European Union. After 70 years in the Soviet Stalinist era and with No past history of "democracy" (however you describe that!) Ukraine must FIND ITS OWN way to transparent justice with innocence till proven otherwise as a cornerstone. Clarion calls for the release of one or a few favoured individuals caught in the old ways is NOT helpful, particularly when the actions called for are as much political and lacking in due process as were the charges that predate Yanykovich's Presidency. Mutual understanding is best served by NON interference in another's internal matters.
Thus Europe needs to concentrate on what it is and what it needs to become. Who IS European? The one who does not belong to the Єuro but uses an absurd "veto" clause to block the ideas of the majority?

2) The financial problems are caused by Banksters and are NOT the result of the existence of various national currencies or currency unions. The world is awash with "fictitious capital" in an amount some 20 times that of the GROSS WORLD Product estimated to be about $75 TRILLION. There is no way save fraudulent paper-electronic transactions that could produce this.
To get an idea of this absurdity, imagine going to your friendly personal banker with a request for a loan, line of credit, or mortgage some 20 times your net collateral worth/income; how far do you suppose that would fly??

Yet that is precisely what the banking "club" does internally. Then they attempt through "bailouts" and "austerity" to download this swindle onto the REAL value created by entrepreneur led labour.
The 99% who had no hand or say in creating the fraudulent "sovereign debts will be robbed of pensions, schools, hospitals, housing, even food to service this swindle.
This fraud is indifferent to whatever currency in which it is denominated; any reference to currency difference is mostly smoke and mirrors to cover the actions of the IMF, FED, "City" &c and the Large private banks that these monsters serve.

I am a European (Portuguese) of ethnic Indian origin, admittedly Goan, so my parents & ancestors were never, except for a brief period in history, under the rule of the British Empire. To hear someone claim that, "The British are fighting for their democracy, to be Represented by a British government alone, with only British laws." is so very ironically hilarious.

Even then, I think saying "English", not British is more apt, since it is also a union of countries within which some may or may not want to be "British", but rather, Welsh or Scottish.

Now, Wales and Scotland as independent countries and members of the EU, that would be something!

BTW, if you want to be that "independent" and only rule yourselves, please also advocate an extrication of your nation, your monarchy, and your flag from any political interest and position of authority in other independent countries: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, etc. There are more, some a little delicate to bring up.

It would appear (yes, I'm being sarcastic) that some British people may not mind being able to tell others what to do, but never, ever, should someone else be allowed to ever tell Britain the same. And certainly not some foreign person named "Manuel" of all things.

The last paragraph of Mwangi's comment puts it well. People like Mr. Barneby make many arguments, but little based in reality and fact. Much to me seems to bear a somewhat xenophobic undercurrent, and again, a very ironic wish to not be (as perceived by them), "ruled" by foreigners. Sour grapes indeed!

Did I just read someone place the blame for financial funny-business in the City of London on "Foreign banks"? Nice.

And did someone criticize a Spanish person's grasp of the English language, which he learnt from an English institute with a deceptive name? Has this person (if they are English) heard some of their fellow countrymen speak their native language?

The EU & Euro are here to stay, and in a short time will get over this little crisis.

Given the nature of what we (Europe) are, with so many languages, etc., the current structure of how it is run needs improvement, but to call it "undemocratic" and "unaccountable" can only be excused by ignorance.

Other monetary regions of the world that compare to the Eurozone are the USA and India. They are made up of states, that are distinct, enormous and have their own economies that run within the greater whole.

The only region in the world, again, a "union" that compares to the EU for diversity, is India. There is an EU project to study how India copes with having so many different languages and cultures. I know a comparison to India will freak English "Euro-skeptics" out even more than being told off by a southern European.

J. Rodriques. I don't think the colonial record of the Portuguese was anything to be proud of. Running the world's largest slaving operation is probably something people in Portugal (and across Africa and South America) would rather hadn't happened. But that, and Britain's colonial past has little to do with the democratic deficit in Europe, and the financial mess created by the Euro. Don't blame Britain because we didn't throw ourselves into the mess with you.

David Barnaby missed the point I was trying to make when |Referred to the various currencies in (con)federations around the world.

Of course the US$, CND$, AUS$, Russian rouble &c are free to find their own echange rates one to another AS ARE THE Єuro and Льsterling. However the New York $ and California $ DO NOT vary one to the other; nor do those of the richest and poorest regions in between these
East-West areas. The same holds for Nova Scotia and British Columbia, ditto Queensland and Tasmania, St Petersburg and Sakha (Russian Federation) &c.

A common currency along with future centrelised military (NOT internal policing)and central European immigration control must be envisioned if Europe is to become one entity with any/all quarrels (inevitable) firmly prevented from becoming armed conflict. At the very least the common currency ought to be made LAW NOW for any/all intra European states transactions.

I anyone thinks this has been completely accompliched a comparison with the uSA in 1860 is in order. There a civil war was what it took to finally settle the idea of in or out.
The same took place in Canada where ideas on Manitoba as an independent Metis homeland were quashed by political and military force before a coast to coast union came out of the chaos; fortunately a much larger Quebec's resistance to that part they do not like has always been essentially non violent.
The Russian Federation is essentially a colonialist creation, but without an ocean to separate the conquering Eropeans the fact is mostly underrated.
Now in the aftermath of the World Wars of the first half of the 20th century which form a paralell with the others internal conflicts it is time for Europe to move on toward that minimum integration that excludes "Civil War"

david tarbuck
The point you are trying to make doesn't add up .
The US , Canada , Australia and Russia are big land masses . The US had civil war , Canada too . Australia was colonised by the British , Russia is the aftermath of the USSR . Your point might be valid if the US , Canada and Mexico united , perhaps the whole of south America . That isn't likely to happen . Argentina tied her currency to the US dollar and became bankrupt as a result .
If you travel across the USA , it is clear that it is one country , even if it is nominally divided into different states . Europe bears no resemblance of one country , you only have to cross the frontier to see the difference as well as different language .

Centralised military is " Pie in the Sky " when half of the countries are pacifist , together they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag .
The single currency was intended to soften people up to eventually accept political union , but the failure of the economics has , I believe , scuppered that .

The USSR was an example of what the EU is proposing , if without the enforced central contol . The EU is in fact aiming to be a socialist state or EUSSR . The USSR broke up because it became bankrupt in about 70yrs , the EU is fast arriving at that point now , to a large extent bankrupt .

"Big land masses"? Does this not apply to Europe?

The Russian Federation PREDATED the USSR/CIS; this being as per the British Empire/Commonwealth.

I Have been raised and educated in North America, some time in USA and some in Canada. Having had a business which took me from Canada to Panama, I can tell you that to one CLOSE to the action the differences across the Continent are as real as those between say France, Germany and Poland. Nevertheless economics with common currency, military, immigration, trade, &c. is what keeps the lid on the pot. I venture to say that this holds elsewhere as well as in USA and/or Canada. Incidently, the number of illegal migrants to USA from Mexico is much less now than prior to NAFTA.

Latin America with such as Mercor Trade is embarking albeit in fits and starts on such as is the N. American experiments; Africa needs to bring the same to bear on the African Union. More power to them.

Hi David
"Big land masses"? Does this not apply to Europe?

NO ! The Historical , Cultural and Customs differences are too great . Canada , The USA and to a certain extent Mexico have developed over comparatively recent years , with an influx of immigrants from around the world . Europe has only very recently had the mix of cultures and even now nothing like the USA or Canada . In the 1950s you would not see an African or Chinese in Italy . I remember my surprise on going to lunch with a wealthy family , being waited on at table by their black butler . Today Italian cities are crawling with African vendors , hawking whatever they can find to sell , sometimes very oppressivly .
The US has long been a multi racial society , but not so Europe . Europeans do not see the US as the No.1 civilised nation in the world and do not want to emulate the US in any way .

Mr Barroso, I liked your speech, right to the point.A note about pregides,you are correct, we have MEP's who come home and start accusing each other, in public. This shows that Brussels can not carry on in this way, we do not want bullies, or more heat remarks. Europe has great problems, if we allow MEP's to divide so their party will be re elected, this gives way for more corruption. 25 years are more then enough to show what I mean.