Tombiński : le « non » irlandais affecte la ratification polonaise [en]

Mr. Ambassador, what is the situation with the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty in Poland following the Irish 'no'? 

The Lisbon Treaty was ratified by the Polish Parliament in March. What we have now is some adjustment of Polish internal co-ordination on EU issues. Our President asked the Government to prepare a new law on the co-operation between the Parliament and the Government on the issue of European integration. 

It's a law which is needed because of some modifications within the Lisbon Treaty, especially regarding the new role of national parliaments, as far as the legislative process in the EU is concerned. And hence this bill has been presented by the Government to sign the ratification. The Polish Constitution says the President has to sign an international treaty before it enters into force. And the President, even after the Irish referendum, repeatedly said that he will ratify the Treaty. He will ratify also because of the fact that he was the person who negotiated it on behalf of Poland a year ago. And he feels bound by the role he played in getting the final version of the treaty. 

Do you mean the Irish referendum did not negatively affect the final stage of ratification by Poland? 

It always affects [this], since the President is obliged to ratify a treaty before it enters into force. Nowadays we don't know if the treaty will enter into force. Therefore we have to see with all other partners what the real situation is. It's not that the EU is waiting now for Poland to complete ratification. There are other countries which did not pass the Lisbon Treaty though the parliamentary procedure. To engage the authority of the President, we need to know if the Treaty enters into force or not. 

But what will happen if Spain says – we will wait for the Poles, and Sweden says – we will wait for the Spanish? 

Whence it goes through the Parliaments there will be a clear message that the Treaty is about to be ratified. The signature of the President does not require more discussion or debate on the content of the Treaty. The Treaty as such has been ratified and even the law on ratification has been also passed and signed by the President. We are waiting for six remaining countries which still have not engaged the procedure of ratification, then we will see. 

And we have in October to solve the problem with what to do in the case one country has not ratified. The Lisbon Treaty does not dispose of a clause which was in the Constitutional Treaty, that whence at least 20 out of 25 have ratified, the European Council will consider the issue and decide what to do further. In the Lisbon Treaty we have a stipulation that it has to be ratified in every EU country. 

Basically you say that your country will not follow the example of the UK which ratified the Lisbon Treaty only days after it was rejected by the Irish, probably as a signal to others as this is the right thing to do.

Don't exaggerate! The Treaty has been passed through all parliamentary procedures. 

But the last stage is not completed. 

The last stage is the simple signature of the President who is obliged to sign it before it enters into force. And he repeatedly said he will do it. He is not obliged to do it in the aftermath of the parliamentary procedure. The Treaty is about, if it remains as it has been negotiated, to enter into force from 1 January 2009. 

Is your country going to use its influence with the Czechs, maybe in the Visegrad framework, to deliver the message that Europe needs this treaty? 

The Irish example has shown that the external pressure is not always very forthcoming in getting the needed results, and some interventions in the public debate in Ireland showed that it can even be counterproductive. Therefore we have to see with our Czech friends what to do to help them find a good way to ratify it. The Czech Republic signed the Treaty, it was a partner in the negotiations, and I guess they will stick to this European obligation. 

And perhaps to add something on what you asked about Poland: the overwhelming majority of Poles are in favour of the Lisbon Treaty. Poland is among the countries with the highest support for the EU project and for the Lisbon Treaty. You cannot do politics with the treaty, going against public opinion.