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Euroscepticism: More than a British phenomenon

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Published 25 January 2013, updated 06 September 2013

With Prime Minister David Cameron having vowed to hold a referendum on UK membership of the EU, Britain's penchant for EU bashing is well publicised. But there are political parties in other member states which are far from in love with the European project, and whose stance against integration has been fanned by the worsening of the economic crisis.

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Summary

That the European Union claimed the last Nobel Peace Prize may have done little to turn the tide of euroscepticism. With Europe in the throes of an economic crisis, resentment towards Brussels is higher than ever. Many Europeans have blamed the EU for causing the crisis, citing a failure of the euro currency. They also resent the EU for continued rounds of austerity measures, which have seen some communities lose vital services, and for its perceived lack of democratic legitimacy.

Speaking to British Labour Leader Ed Miliband in New Statesman magazine, the president of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, warned about the effect the crunch could have on European morale: “Of course [euroscepticism] worries me … There are old demons in Europe - extreme nationalism, populism, xenophobia. You see that in times in crisis that extremist forces, populist forces, have a better ground to oversimplify things and to manipulate feelings.”

But to authors and political scientists Robert Harmsen and Menno Spiering, the EU integration process is a victim of its success.

In their book 'Euroscepticism: Party Politics, National Identity and European Integration' (2004) the authors suggest: "The European Union's progressively expanding competence has, correspondingly, multiplied the potential sources of friction which may give rise to forms of Euroscepticism."

They also suggest the EU opens itself up to criticism through its 'soft' power style.

"Equally, the EU's particular propensity for 'existential' political debate, regularly revising its founding treaties in the midst of discussions as to its finalities and purpose, has perhaps also served to fuel a commensurate questioning of that purpose."

Nik de Boer and Maarten Hillebrandt of the Amsterdam Centre for Law and Governance say the mistrust between citizens and the EU is understandable.

"The European member states have never really sought to involve their citizens in the EU. The political debate about the goal of the EU and the way to reach it has largely taken place behind closed doors," they wrote on BlogActiv.

They said this has led to European citizens putting the brakes on further integration through national referenda. The EU has become something to either be for or against, they added.

Definition

The word sceptic denotes a member of one of the ancient Greek schools of philosophy, or more specifically that of Pyrrho, who believed that real knowledge of things is impossible.

Eurosceptics are citizens or politicians who present themselves as ‘sceptical’ - critical - of the union which they say takes powers away from their national government and poses a threat to their national sovereignty.

There are supposedly two forms of euroscepticism - ‘hard’ and ‘soft’.

‘Hard’ or ‘withdrawalist’ euroscepticism is the opposition to membership or the existence of the EU. The European Parliament’s Europe of Freedom and Democracy group, which includes the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP), is hard eurosceptic.

‘Soft’ or ‘reformist’ euroscepticism supports the existence of the EU and membership to the Union, but opposes further integrationist EU policies and the idea of a federal Europe. The European Conservatives and Reformists group, including the British Conservative Party and the European United Left-Nordic Green Left alliance, can be described as soft eurosceptics.

But euroscepticism can further be viewed as part of a spectrum, ranging from 'europhobia' - similar to xenophobia - to a healthy sceptical attitude, and questioning of accepted beliefs. As such, certain forms of scepticism exist across all political spheres.

Interviewees from a December 2011 European Parliament report on British euroscepticism, ranging from a former EU Council press officer to a correspondent from the Daily Express, a particularly eurosceptic UK paper, outlined such a spectrum. Xenophobia and europhobia were judged to be the most extreme expression of euroscepticism. 'Non-integrationism', 'eurorealism', 'populism', 'euroboredom' and criticism of the EU were deemed milder forms.

Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic magazine, says scepticism is a process of discovering the truth rather than a blanket non-acceptance of the latest theory. Hence, unthinking support can be as bad, if not worse, than blanket non-acceptance. This is why both eurosceptics and supporters of the EU both try to claim they are 'realistic'. 

Issues

Greece: Dawn of dissent

The Greeks are credited with creating the first pan-European society, the Hellenistic empire which expanded from modern-day Spain to Russia, and with giving Europe the classicism which continues to define the continent’s culture 2,000 years later. Yet euroscepticism - a word derived from Greek - is now coming of age within its population.

As EU-ordered austerity measures put the squeeze on Greek public spending, patience among the population is faltering. The country has seen waves of, sometimes violent, protests over the past two years as Greeks find themselves with heavily-reduced if not absent basic public services.

Many have questioned whether austerity is the right cure for the Greek economy, saying the lack of new investment paralyses growth. They would rather leave the EU, than suffer the perceived ‘ignominy’ of these measures, which are the cost of the bailouts keeping the Greek economy afloat.

“Greece’s eurozone partners (especially Germany) are blamed for subjecting the country to excessive and unjustified punitive austerity”, writes George Pagoulatos in ‘Reinventing Europe: Desperately hanging on in Greece’. “These sentiments have been seized upon by extremists and populists.”

Many believe the ‘Golden Dawn’ to be a neo-Nazi group, which its members deny despite bearing a Swastika-like emblem, giving Nazi-style salutes and espousing an extremely intolerant attitude towards immigrants. The group is strongly against the EU and its members have been linked to a number of violent incidents during anti-austerity marches.

Its perceived defiance of austerity may part of the Golden Dawn's success. Support for the ultra-nationalist party has risen as high as 14% in recent months, making it Greece’s third-largest political party.

The radical left Syriza party has also gained ground, having taken up an anti-EU stance. “Its virulent opposition to the ‘Memorandum’ and ‘Merkel’s policies’ may incorporate elements of economic nationalism," says Pagoulatos. "But it shuns cultural nationalism and vociferously opposes xenophobia.” 

By spring 2012, Eurobarometer suggested that 14% more Greeks considered the EU a ‘bad’ thing than a ‘good’ thing, a clear reversal of the situation over the previous two decades, when the gap between those with a positive view of the EU compared to a negative view had reached highs of over 60%, says Pagoulatos.

France: je t’aime, moi non plus?

France, along with Germany, is central both geographically and politically to the EU. It was the French, perhaps more than any other people, who seduced Europe into forming the European Community (EC) in 1957. French politician Jacques Delors is further credited with making the EU’s first steps towards deeper integration, when he served as President of the European Commission between 1985 and 1994. But the country has housed its fair share of eurosceptic sentiment.

The Front National (FN), a right-wing political party now spearheaded by Marine Le Pen, sees the European project as synonymous with social breakdown and dislocation. Sovereignty and statehood is a touchy subject for some French, who still shed a nostalgic tear at the thought of the Gaullist Republique.

The National Front claimed much of the credit when France rejected the constitutional treaty in a 2005 referendum.

Le Pen was quoted as saying: “We will have to strike down the European treaties, the treaties of the mainstream parties, which are holding us back and condemning us to isolation. This anything-goes politics has become totally anachronistic throughout the world.” She has called the EU “the Trojan horse of ultraliberal globalisation” yet also, perhaps contradicting herself, compared it to the USSR and “a European Soviet Union”.

French euroscepticism is more often a sort of euro-indifference or detachment rather than outright antagonism, writes Helen Drake in 'French Relations with the European Union' (2005).

“This helps to explain why a pronounced eurosceptical stance has not so far proved a major vote-winner for presidential contenders or for political parties, except in elections to the European Parliament which voters regard as being of secondary importance”, Drake says.

Le Pen has never been a serious contender for president - though the FN did gather a record number of votes in the last French election - but she was elected to the European Parliament under the slogan “Europe hurts”.

The Netherlands: EU turn

The Netherlands had long been viewed as one of the most enthusiastic supporters of EU integration. At least since the 1960s, Dutch governments have been strong supporters of the ‘Community Model’ and the development of supranational institutional structures, write Harmsen and Spiering. Indeed euroscepticism is not as much of a force in the Netherlands as it is in the UK, with fewer calls to leave the EU. But resentment is on the rise, due to concerns over the net national contribution to the EU budget.

Fanning that resentment is Geert Wilders, the towheaded leader and founder of the right-wing nationalist Freedom Party (PVV). A central part of Wilders’ campaign is to ditch the euro, bring back the Dutch guilder, and eventually leave the EU.

When his party lost 11 parliamentary seats in recent elections, he said he would continue to fight “to protect the Netherlands against Europe, against mass immigration, against the super-state.” The government headed by Mark Rutte collapsed in April 2012 after Wilders refused to support further public sector cuts, saying he disagreed with “European diktats” requiring the Netherlands to cut its deficit.

Experts believe that his anti-immigration and anti-Europe views forced mainstream parties to become more eurosceptic, in a way that draws parallels with the influence of UKIP on the British Conservative Party.

Rutte said last year, in a televised interview, that Greece should not receive any more bailout money from Dutch taxpayers.

Adriaan Schout, a researcher at the Centre for European Policy Studies, argues that the Dutch Parliament has been skirting European problems, leading to mistrust in the public. “Public debates about the EU have come too late and been conducted with insufficient depth. As a result, the public has remained ill-informed and has been left with uncertainty, for example about whether their taxes are being wasted on Greece and on an ineffective EU budget. Such uncertainties create a fertile breeding ground for discontent.”

Poland: a tenet of the extreme

Euroscepticism is relatively unpopular in Poland, with the EU generally representing welfare, freedom and democracy, as well as modernity, for Polish citizens, analysts say. Since the days of the Soviet empire, Poland has fostered stronger links with Germany and the former Soviet republics, with old ruler Russia viewed by many as its 'main enemy'.

An anti-EU stance has been the mainstay only of extremist parties and individuals, with the main political groups having pushed for integration. The decision to join the EU in 2004 was supported by 77.45% of Polish voters in a referendum the year before, making it one of the most pro-EU countries to join the union.

The only party to lobby heavily against EU memberships was the far-right, nationalist and Catholic traditionalist League of Polish Families (LPR), which claimed the EU was a non-Christian organisation that supported a civilization of “death”.

Like eurosceptics everywhere, the LPR feared the EU would affect its country’s independence, preferring isolationism over integration.

The Catholic Priest Father Tadeusz Rydzyk, who supported LPR on the ultra-conservative radio station Radio Maryja, said on air in 2002: “In the west, I detect mostly the power of Satan”, adding he thought the EU wanted “to strangle Poland, take its land and make it a subjugated republic”.

But after Poland joined the EU, agricultural subsidies benefited Polish farmers and Rydzyk himself applied for EU money, justifying it as a “patriotic obligation, to take as much as possible away from them.”

Another largely eurosceptic party is the populist Self-Defense Party (Samoobrona). It had begun an anti-EU campaign, claiming accession would jeopardise Poland’s countryside, but kept silent during referendum campaigns after seeing the vast support for the EU in the general population.

Poland’s largest political party, the Law and Justice party, formerly led by twin brothers Lech and Jarosław Kaczyński, has traditionally supported EU integration as long as it was beneficial to Poland.

"We support a strong Poland. That's why we are calling for a yes vote for Poland's accession into the EU," Jarosław Kaczyński said before the 2003 referendum.

The former prime minister, who could normally be described as only a mild sceptic, began to pull away from the EU at the start of the debt crisis.

"We shouldn't pay for Greece. We were supposed to sit at the European table and feast. But now we are on the menu," he said.

Kaczyński also found himself in a comparable position to British Prime Minister David Cameron, needing to please a eurosceptic backbench – the anti-Europe LPR party in his coalition.

The current Polish leader, Donald Tusk, is what you might call pro-European, declaring unequivocally in July 2011: “The European Union is fantastic”.

During the same speech, he called for greater solidarity within the Union, which was “going through one of the most difficult and complicated moments in its history” and called for more integration.

He also warned of a “new euroscepticism” - differentiating it from the UK’s “traditional euroscepticism” - which he said was the “behaviour of politicians who say they support the EU and further integration but at the same time take steps that weaken the union.”

Finally, he said Poles were not afraid of integration because they “lived for years as a non-sovereign country, under Soviet occupation … European integration is not a threat to sovereignty because we experienced not long ago a serious threat to our sovereignty,” adding that pro-European Polish “energy” could revitalise an anxious EU.

Danes opt out

Euroscepticism has existed in Denmark ever since the country joined the European Economic Community in 1973. The Danes have voted for eurosceptic parties to represent them in the European Parliament since 1979.

In the 1970s and 1980s, most eurosceptics came from left-wing parties – which have traditionally seen the EU as ‘too liberal.´ But since then the right-wing nationalist Danish People’s Party has taken over bearing the anti-EU standard. However, there is a tendency in Denmark for politicians to be more pro EU than the majority of the population (voters).

Like their British counterparts, Danish eurosceptics fear losing their independence to Brussels. Supporters of the EU usually cite the economic benefits that come with the removal of trade barriers.

Denmark currently holds four opt-outs from EU policies: the “Common security and defence policy”, “Citizenship of the European Union”, “Area of freedom, security and justice” and the “Economic and monetary union”. This is as many as the UK, which opts-in case by case on most “Area of freedom, security and justice” matters, however.

After 50.7% of the Danish voters refused to support the Maastricht Treaty and join the EU in 1992, Denmark negotiated the four opt-outs. Eventually Denmark joined the EU after a second referendum in 1993, with still only 56.7% of the voters accepting the treaty.

In 2000, the abolition of the euro opt-out was put to another referendum, but 53.2% of the voters voted against adopting the currency. The Danish central bank, however, has run a fixed exchange-rate policy to keep the krone within a tight band versus the euro. The bank usually cuts rates in tandem with the European Central Bank, effectively making the krone the euro by another name.

Ever since the 2000 referendum, the question of adopting the euro has been absent from the Danish political debate. The euro crisis has made it even more difficult for Danish politicians to put the question on the agenda.

An opinion poll from June 2012 showed that 56.7% of Danes wanted Denmark to continue the euro opt-out. Only 17.2% would vote “yes” to adopting the euro if Denmark was to hold another referendum. Local eurosceptics also celebrated the news from Danish economists in July 2012 that the country has saved 338 billion kroner (€45.31 billion) from not being part of the euro.

The new Danish government which took office in October 2011 said it planned to hold referendums to remove the two opt-outs “Common security and defence Policy” and “Area of freedom, security and justice” in its first term.

Nevertheless, in June 2012 Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt told the newspaper Politiken that because of the “euro crisis and so much turmoil and uncertainty surrounding the European project”, it might take several years before the Danes once again have to decide in a referendum whether to keep the country’s four EU opt-outs.

Czech Republic is in no hurry

While joining the EU was viewed by many politicians as the achievement of its highest foreign policy goal since the fall of Communism in 1989, the Czech Republic is largely seen as the most eurosceptic country in Central-Eastern Europe.

The country was the last member state to ratify the Lisbon Treaty, which entered into force 1 December 2009. In May 2010, the Czech president Václav Klaus said that they "needn’t hurry to enter the eurozone".

Klaus, did not sign until he secured a guarantee his country would not be exposed to property claims by Germans expelled from the then Czechoslovakia after the Second World War.

The 2004 European Parliament elections in the Czech Republic were won by the right-wing Civic Democratic Party (ODS), which gained 30% of the vote. The ODS subsequently decided that it would pull out of the European People's Party group and would form a new eurosceptic party together with the UK Conservatives.

The Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia (KSCM) has demanded an EU referendum. Similar to the criticism voiced by other eurosceptic left-wing parties in Europe, the KSCM sees EU integration as somewhat a 'capitalist conspiracy', labelling it “exploitative multinational capitalism”. They have expressed concerns that EU policies are aimed at protecting the interests of larger states such as Germany.

According to the then leader of the SNK-ED (European Democrats), Lukáš Macek, that party offers a "pragmatic and realistic programme for right-wing or centrist voters who want the Czech Republic to be an influential member of a stable and operational EU". 

SNK-ED candidates support Prague's speedy adoption of the euro and its ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. The party also supports the creation of a "functioning EU energy policy" and wants to reform the EU budget. Though it could be viewed as political fence-sitting, the party's motto reads: 'Neither isolation, nor left-wing policy'. 

The Party of Free Citizens (SSO) casts itself as a "real opposition party", against the "current trends in European integration". The SSO has demanded a referendum on ratification of the Lisbon Treaty and the adoption of the euro.

The party's opinions differ greatly from the European mainstream, expressing its desire for the abandonment of the EU's renewable energy targets, support for agrofuels, and the abolishment of "all green euro-regulations". Furthermore, it believes that the solving the economic crisis should remain within the competence of each member state.

There is evidence that Czechs are warming to Europe after the pro-EU Miloš Zeman won the presidential election in January 2013.

But analysts are taking the change with a pinch of salt. “Anyone who has a chance to become president is more pro-European than Klaus,” said Jiří Pehe, a Czech political scientist.

Positions

In November 2010, the European Council president, Herman Van Rompuy, claimed euroscepticism could “lead to war” and that it was part of a rise of nationalism in Europe.

“In every member state, there are people who believe their country can survive alone in the globalised world. It is more than an illusion: it is a lie”, he said.

Former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair likened euroscepticism to a "virus". He said: "The Right have got it bad on this Europe thing", adding that if the UK left the EU it would be "hugely destructive of Britain's interests".

Others, such as Conservative MP Bill Cash, denied the link between nationalism and euroscepticism. But to the European Commission’s President, José Manuel Barroso, they are cut from the same cloth.

MEP Nigel Farage said in a UKIP statement: "We seek an amicable divorce from the European Union and its replacement with a genuine free-trade agreement, which is what my parents' generation thought we’d signed up for in the first place." He later said: "We know the costs of Europe. What are the benefits?”

External Links

​Press articles

​Think tanks and academia

COMMENTS

  • Putin meets with leader of Iraqi Kurdish M.Barzani. Oil for independence. Arayik
    Sargsyan, Consul of Macedonia in Armenia. http://pukmedia.com/EN/RU_Direje.aspx?Jimare=244#.UQoKJUxC5_E.twitter

    By :
    ARAYIK SARGSYAN, academician, President of the Academy of ge
    - Posted on :
    31/01/2013
  • Wow barroso is good, so if you happen to like your own country your a populist,racist,extremist, and your full of xenophobia. Whos the demon here, and what has this guy been smoking?
    I think its time for the barroso and the boys to look in the mirror!!

    By :
    klassen
    - Posted on :
    10/02/2013
  • "Wow barroso is good [...]".

    Who's talking about Barroso here? There is talk of two bloggers named Nik de Boer and Maarten Hillebrandt, of a book on British Euroscepticism written by two authors named Robert Harmsen and Menno Spiering, and of opinions voiced by interviewees in an EU Parliament report. José Manuel Barroso is President of the European Commission. I don't see his opinions stated anywhere in this article, nor those of the European Commission as such. Of course everyone has a right to disagree with the views expressed here and be frankly Eurosceptic (to whatever degree), but please pay credit where credit is due and nowhere else :-)

    By :
    jackieh
    - Posted on :
    20/02/2013
  • The UK is not the only country very sceptical of the EU , people seem to forget this .
    And a survey of citizens within the EU would I think also show that a large percentage are not for the EU in its current form

    By :
    Paul Rice
    - Posted on :
    03/03/2013
  • Which revisions, in the current EU structure, would likely broaden the support for it among the member states?

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    04/03/2013
  • The sooner the UK waves good bye to the Eu the better. I am British and I do not want to belong to the United States of Europe. I am sure these sentiments can be found in any other country on the European continent. It seems that the only people that want it are the ones milking it for what they can get!
    The EU could start to change public opinion by firstly balancing it's books for once and telling us where 1.2 billion euro went form the foreign aid budget for 2011.
    It's bad enough to be screwed by our own individual government's But to add Brussels to the mix!

    The simple fact is there are 27 countries and they all want the best fro themselves, thats why there will never be harmony in the EU. The sooner Brussels sees that the better and it can start winding it's neck in.

    By :
    Philip royle
    - Posted on :
    08/03/2013
  • The EU is run by the commission instead of parliament and that is a huge democratic flaw which needs to be changed. If the people of Europe knew that their vote counted and we had politicians that could actually get things done in the EU - it would dramatically reduce the democratic deficit that exists today.

    By :
    David Mathieson
    - Posted on :
    17/03/2013
  • EU lead Portugal to economic ruin. Before EU with had a strong textile industry, the largest fisheries in europe, good wine production. After EU we lost all of this and specialized in getting subsidies from EU. Then, the euro put us out of market, and gave us low interest rates witch politics took advantage to endebed our country. Today, due to EU membership, Portugal is a zombie state.

    By :
    Rui
    - Posted on :
    22/03/2013
  • This EU is very fay from the imagination by Charles de Gaulle or Konrad Adenauer. The problem is that this eurocratic bureaucracy was not able to produce or accept any talented politician with charisma and vision. Barroso and his comrades are mediocres without vision,without engagement to european culture and tradition. Europe is in decline (see the demographical figures, the worsening education and missing scientific inventions etc.)
    EU would be a nice and useful idea but not with these untalented leaders...

    By :
    zoltanvajda
    - Posted on :
    04/04/2013
  • This item purports to be about euroscepticism in MSS other than the UK. But it isnt. What is the position elsewhere please?

    By :
    Carol Harlow
    - Posted on :
    19/04/2013
  • Adolf, Say what you mean and don't beat around the bush! lol.

    By :
    Philip royle
    - Posted on :
    19/04/2013
  • @David Mathieson
    I agree with you about the Parliament being in charge, would make the whole process more democratic - and a further degree of legitimacy in the EU's decision making.

    However if you think national governments will agree to this then your in for a long wait. If the Council and the Commission are taken over by the Parliament it would totally undermine the powers of the national governments - I believe they know this which is why
    1 - we wont ever get a fully democratic Union with a charismatic leader to take Europe forward as a whole.
    2 - we will never see the United States of Europe that people keep complaining about, no national leader will wilfully relegate their position to something akin to a U.S. senator...

    By :
    petera
    - Posted on :
    20/04/2013
  • I would vote for Micky Mouse rather than any of the THREE MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES ever again. They are taking our money under false pretences, pretending to Govern when all the time THEY HAVE TO OBEY THE ORDERS OF FOREIGNERS and THAT is not what this Country is about. Many gave their lives so that WE could live by our own Constitution. Because we were led by a GIANT of a man in World War II we thought all Politicians were like that one. We were wrong. Stupidly wrong right from Heath who lied to us in that there would be no loss of essential Sovereignty, and the one that grandly stated even our Queen is an EU Citizen now. Come the Election in 2015, as we all know that we have THREE major Political Parties that want to remain in the EU-FOREVER, my vote will go to any organisation THAT WANTS OUT OF THE EU.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • The UK is not going to withdraw from the EU. While there are many serious problems inherent in sustaining an organization that seeks to represent 450 million people, the many diverse areas in which it is successful plus the vital areas that require cooperation, like national security, will always garner the votes necessary for its continuation.

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • If there is NO REFERENDUM before 2015 Earl Bell, the people will indeed use the General Election in 2015 as the REFERENDUM they have been denied, and, as they are well aware that ALL THREE MAJOR POLITICAL PARTIES WANT TO REMAIN IN THE EU FOREVER, the PEOPLE WILL ONLY VOTE FOR THOSE POLITICAL PARTIES OR ORGANISATION THAT WANTS FREEDOM FROM FOREIGN RULE AND ACCORDING TO LAW.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • "Freedom from foreign rule and according to law", how is it "foreign"and "not according to law", when you are a voluntary, participating member?

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • Perhaps before your time Earl Bell, we have to remember the Oaths our Queen made at Her Coronation and try not to pass laws that are contrary to Her Majesty's Oaths she made at Her Coronation. For whatever Her majesty's Government may do, all must be in keeping with those Oaths. What is proposed presently is indeed contrary to them. The altering of nine parts of our longstanding Common Law Constitution for a start. The same Constitution many people fought and died for between 1939-1945. As Her Majesty’s Ministers also make loyal Oaths before they may take up their seats in the House of Commons, even though some of the people (No, not me) have freely voted for them, they may not take their seats until their sworn Oath is read out loud.

    Even as MP’s step forward in the House of Commons to place their hand on the Bible and swear the Oath, that Oath ends with the words , "ACCORDING TO LAW". This is the Executive ECHOING the Queen's own Coronation Oath. There are TWO OATHS operative here, to protect the nation and the people. The Queen's Oath, and the Oath of her Executive to her. They are interlocking oaths to respect the RULE OF LAW at all times. This is my final posting.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • Interesting, however, national law and international law enjoy their own separate domains. The voluntary participation by all nation-states in the EU documents their willingness to fashion policy or laws collectively, where common interest adheres. Under the EU treaties, the UK or any other member state has the right to withdraw immediately, especially if their national sovereignty is substantially at risk, no need to wait for 2015.

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    30/04/2013
  • Many people do not know how exactly the EU system works. Governments should do much more to make that clear to ordinary citizens. People keep thinking that it is the EU that brought the economic crisis. This is absolutely not true. There are certain national governments that did some abuses with no economic discipline and finally found themselves in this situation. Furthermore, the EU is the largest market in the world, states could only benefit from that. The EU is trying to set some economic measures and make sure states play by the rules so that another crisis like this one does not occur. So many people in the UK want to leave the EU because they think what is happening right now in their country is EU's fault. Well, I hope they get out. I hope they get out so that they can finally realize how much the EU actually benefits them and how much worse off the UK will be outside the EU. Lets's take the case of Norway- they are not in the EU and euro sceptics would argue that yet they still benefit from EU trade. But what euro sceptics do not tell you is that in order for Norway to benefit economically they needed to follow the same EU rules and they also needed to adopt the acquis communautaire (the EU law)! But unlike EU member states, they don't have MEPs, nor Commissioners, nor EU representatives. It's also very pity that people think the EU is all about erasing different nationalities/ cultures, etc. This is no not true! The EU is about making states cooperate! It's about cooperation, working together, finding solutions that could benefit everyone! It is very very sad that there are so many misunderstandings and some media and populist politicians looking to win voters do that on the back of some EU countries, hence, creating discrimination and hate between people.

    By :
    Yana Daneva
    - Posted on :
    04/05/2013
  • Ah Yana Daneve! You have swallowed the dream, the thought, the how it was meant for you to believe.

    Look around the EU and see how many people are "hurting" Really hurting. Mainly because the people they elected to govern them are giving far too much of their money away to foreigners to do the job they pay their own Governments to do. Now why exactly do you think most of the 27 Country's in the EU are in financial difficulties "today" and have been for quite a while?

    Each Government in the EU has to do exactly what they are told to do, even to spying on their own people, collecting all the information up and sending it to those that want it. Yet we once used to call ourselves here in the UK with pride, "free people". But not any more.

    One way or another, the people of this Country are going to set themselves FREE and within the next three years. All within the law, and all peacefully.
    It is indeed written. Phase one, has already been set in motion, and nothing will prevent what is to come now.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    04/05/2013
  • As I already said, if UK gets out of the EU everyone will see if it was actually the EU that caused this 'hurting', or the national governments. Obviously people learn best from their own mistakes, so there's no point of explanations. Furthermore, as having studied Politics at the university I know both the negative and the positive side of this institution, its' history and aims. And if I am 'swallowed' by the EU, than I guess unfortunately many people including you are swallowed by the lies of UK populist parties.

    By :
    Yana Daneva
    - Posted on :
    04/05/2013
  • No Yana. I am not in any Political Party or Organisation, never have been and never will be. I research all, for myself. I KNOW it is the EU that is hurting most Countries in the EU because it is the people that Contribute to paying for their own Government to Govern and if then you add up exactly what your Country have given in Contributions to the EU since joining, plus all the extras, the reductions taking place in many areas-particularly in DEFENCE-you might find the debts most Countries are in come to near enough the extra money's paid out.

    I haven't been to University Yana, but I have lived the history of life and a full blown WAR. And Yana, from the results of the elections this week here in the UK, many people that were taken in by populist Parties, as you call them, have woken up at last and they see a way to set our-selves free from the European Union. Strangely enough Yana, I have given "TALKS" at Schools and at one University when asked.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    04/05/2013
  • Well, certainly it is very easy to focus only on the negative side. Plus, do not forget that countries have contributed to the EU budget, but have gained a lot by all the subsidies that the EU gives. What's more, the single EU market is bigger than that of the US, which means it provides a relatively level playing for British business to trade in. This enables not just free trade in terms of the absence of customs duties or tariffs but a common set of rules so that business does not have to comply with 27 different sets of regulations. Between 1992 and 2006 the UK GDP increased by 25£ billion. 3.5 million jobs are directly linked to the UK trade with other member states. Hence, you have a free movement of people, goods and services- you can travel anywhere without having an ID, no restrictions for businesses, etc, etc, and there are people who still claim they are not free? If people were better off the EU, then Greece should go out right away and immediately improve its huge recession. Why Greece does not do it? Or Spain or Portugal? Because they know without the EU they will be completely isolated and the situation will become even worse. I am not saying the EU is perfect, far from it, but it offers many opportunities that otherwise do not exist. Of course, everyone has an opinion and I respect yours, that's how we have better discussions. After all, time will show if the UK (or any other state) will be better off without the EU.

    By :
    Yana Daneva
    - Posted on :
    05/05/2013
  • Yana, why is it that Europhiles such as yourself always state how bad it will be for the UK if it leaves the EU? It would be nice if a Europhile stated the truth, that it would be bad for the EU if the UK left and that's why the EU needs to keep the UK in the EU.

    As for Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece they, as member states have never contributed to the EU budget ever. In Spain's case that over 26 years! 26 years of paying nothing in but getting lot's out the same for the rest all charity nations. I would suggest that that's why they don't leave

    The simple fact is that most of the population of the EU have not been told the truth. They have not been told what the EU elite want and that's a Federal State where all main power belongs in Brussels and national governments are reduced to little more that county councils able only to pass By-laws.

    Well over my dead body! I see nothing that the EU has done for the UK that is beneficial to the people of the UK. The EU want's to destroy the UK banking industry. It's already opened out boarders, taking them out of our control. And now we can't even throw people out of our own countries that plot to attack us. We pay and give to the poorer countries and they out vote us when we say "hold on this is costing to much" but they keep their faced in the money trough.

    I have no problem with the 'common market' as a trade organisation and to improve industry. But when it infringes on my every day life then thats to much. There is a simple choice the EU either backs down and restores powers to national government or the EU will collapse.

    By :
    philip royle
    - Posted on :
    05/05/2013
  • Dear Philip, I am not a Europhile, I simply see both sides of the problem. You can't blame others for the things that happen, you can't always blame the EU for the mistakes of the national/ regional governments. The only exclusive EU competences are in the areas of the customs union, competition rules for the internal market, monetary policy for the Euro countries, fisheries and trade policy. All other areas are either shared or either under national 'competences'. You should also never ever forget that whatever decision the Commission proposes, it should be voted by the Council of Ministers (national ministers from the democratically elected government in each country) and the EU Parliament (this is all MEPs which are democratically elected by each country). Hence, no law could be passed without being approved by member states. And who represents the member states? The national governments that were freely elected by all citizens. Consequently, the answer is no, the EU has much less powers than national governments. Afterall, it is national governments that are the building blocks of the EU. So, instead of blaming someone else, take a look at what is happening at national level. It's very easy blaming the EU for everything. Regarding what benefits the EU has brought to the UK, you can read again my other statement, where I have given only a small part of the exact numbers. Anyway, we live in a democracy so people decide how to be govern and if a country decides to not be an EU member state any more than it should accept the consequences of this decision- good or bad. And no, the EU does not need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

    By :
    Yana Daneva
    - Posted on :
    05/05/2013
  • I know I will never change the way you think and yes you are a Europhile just as I am a Eurosceptic. But just have a good read at what you have written and you will see that where you have mentioned the UK it has been negative towards the UK. This is what we expect from the EU. Negative towards the UK and this is what we constantly get. Spreading fear and uncertainty in the British population miss information. Or maybe you think that EU disinformation only comes from UKIP and the British press. Well the EU does it's fair share of misinformation and scare mongering.
    If the EU doesn't need the UK why do I read so much about it then? Why do I read post like your that are negative towards my country? What country are you from? I think I know that answer already though.

    By :
    philip royle
    - Posted on :
    05/05/2013
  • Dear Philip,
    I am not negative towards the UK. I am just trying to show the other side of the problem because there is too much focus only on the negative. I said the EU does not need the UK more than the UK needs the EU- hence, this is a relationship with mutual benefits. And this applies not only to the UK, but to all other countries. I have never said something bad regarding the UK, I simply stated what are the possible losses of not being an EU member and what are the benefits of staying in the EU. And you read so much about it because the press needs something like that to attract readers just as politicians do the same to attract voters.

    By :
    Yana Daneva
    - Posted on :
    06/05/2013
  • Well lets look at the positives of us leaving the EU. We would have our own boarders back for a start. The thing that Europhiles try not to mention is that hardly any of the population from richer countries are economic immigrants. But the poorer EU countries export their national's as a commodity. Taking the jobs that UK nationals should be made to take.
    We would be able to stop health tourism and Uk benefit tourism.
    We would save the wasteful EU budget money and not have to contribute towards the uesless 'Club Med' governments that have no self control and are a mill stone round the neck of the EU.
    We would be able to throw out criminals and people who plot against us to destroy our way of life.
    We would get out own fishing industry back. We would be able to protect the 'City' and financial institutions that the EU want to re house in Germany.
    Europhiles keep going on about trade news flash the EU is not the only set of countries that do trade.
    But the best of all, is that we wouldn't have foreign politicians elected or unelected interfering in our country and like wise they wouldn't have British politicians interfering in theirs.

    And I notice you don't say what country you come from, as I expected. Europhiles hate putting their flag in the ground. No doubt your a 'European' from the country of 'Europa'

    By :
    philip royle
    - Posted on :
    06/05/2013
  • What we are going to do philip royle come the General Election in 2015 and knowing we have THREE major Political Parties that all want to remain in the EU, is for us ALL to put our love of FREEDOM for our Country before any of the three major Politcal Parties that want foreigners to make all Rules and REGULATIONS that we are supposed to obey. We are going to vote for any of the Politcal Parties that want OUT of the EU. It makes no difference if they have never Governed before, for those in parliament now, only follow EU Orders. PLUS the people of this Country can no longer pay for and support Foreigners Governing this Country, for I am sure you know that is also absolutely contrary to our Constitution. The Laws on Treason are there to protect our Country and although under Labour two of those Treason Laws were "Repealed in error" they cannot be repealed and thus remain, for they are for "all timee" to protect our Constitution. If you put your Party before your Constitution you will lose your Country. A reminder that a referendum is held BEFORE a new Political party comes in at the next General Election-NO PARLIAMENT MAY BIND. No promise to hold a referendum AFTER the General election will hold either, if another Party gets in. This is exactly why the General Election in 2015 must be taken Advantage of.

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    06/05/2013
  • Hi Phillip,
    U are wright when you say southern countries have never payed a cent to the EU. The problem is that we are suffering economicaly from the integration in an economic area withc rules and regulations are aimed to favour Germany and France, not the south. Somehow the EU made the south countries become a kind of german backyard. Yes, our taxes do not go to EU, yet they go on risen because expenses are the same and revenues go down because economy is shrinking due to economic integration in a political union. Thou not paying, we are in a worst position then UK.
    I think that the soonest this coffin EU is brakes, the better for all of us, including the germans.

    By :
    Rui
    - Posted on :
    06/05/2013
  • a referendum in europe it will show that no contry will vote for the eu not only uk anti eu is growing at fast speed but in brussel they dont really see or they dont want to see?

    By :
    FABIO
    - Posted on :
    11/05/2013
  • Really, which countries are currently attempting to withdraw? Member countries possess a right of withdrawal.

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    11/05/2013
  • Bravo to Anne Palmer and Philip Royle !!
    It seems you got to the truth ! It is amazing but Germans and English might very well together to blown this unhealthy freedom stealing construction, led by self nominated better humans such as masons and secret organizations which want to get full power over all people

    By :
    Uli
    - Posted on :
    16/05/2013
  • just put the germans

    By :
    FABIO
    - Posted on :
    16/05/2013
  • I'd like to see the UK stay part or Europe but we must never surrender our sovereignty!!!

    By :
    R.McGrail
    - Posted on :
    21/05/2013
  • To R.McGrail"Sovereignty" is the 'authority' to make decisions for yourself, and since the last Treaty ratified, there is very little sovereignty left for any once National Government to use. Almost everything for instance that our freely elected Government has done here in the UK, started its Journey from the European Union. The people in the UK have been denied their "say" before any Treaty was ratified. They may well have their say come the 2015 General Election for as the people recognise that all three major Political parties want to remain in the EU, they will vote fopr any Political party or Organisation that wants FREEDOM FROM FOREIGN RULE.

    The Localism Act put through by Mr Cameron started its Journey from the EU -it is also on the Council of Europe's Website and also in the United Nations Website perhaps for World Governance, govening through its REGIONS? Who knows!

    The people may soon be asking WHY they are paying and electing National Governments and Parliaments when all those they elect and pay have to obey the same EU orders. What then eh?

    By :
    Anne Palmer
    - Posted on :
    21/05/2013
  • Hi Anne,

    do you really believe what you wrote? Just to know! As, in that case, you'd have got to blame either King George VI and Churchill, who proposed to France in 1940 a complete fusion with UK to face front together the Nazis. If France had accepted it, what should I assume they would be? Traitors?

    Bisous,
    JFD

    By :
    Jean-François Dupont
    - Posted on :
    05/06/2013
  • He was a "canny lad" was our Churchill.

    By :
    Anne
    - Posted on :
    05/06/2013
  • " "The European Union's progressively expanding competence has, correspondingly, multiplied the potential sources of friction which may give rise to forms of Euroscepticism."

    Come on now be honest the EU is totally incompetent what they really mean is the number of areas the EU is legally qualified to control.
    The use of the term "comptence" bears no relationship to the actual expertise of the EU as an organisation.
    You have obviously fooled the politicians however the people are not so easily taken in by this EU criminality.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    11/08/2013
  • In November 2010, the European Council president, Herman Van Rompuy, claimed euroscepticism could “lead to war” and that it was part of a rise of nationalism in Europe.

    It seems the EU provinces which gain most from the EU bureaucracies expenditure make the wildest accusations.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    11/08/2013
  • No proof, just wild accusations.

    By :
    Earl Bell
    - Posted on :
    11/08/2013
  • Evad666 just to clarify - the term 'competence' is a legal one; not the colloquial or more common meaning you have given it. It means an area where the EU has legal competence i.e. is capable (or competent) of making legislation.
    You must remember that the EU is a supranational body as such it has the power to make rules for the Union as a whole; it is only however given these powers, or competences, through the Treaties - and is not allowed to legislate in areas which it is competent ~ legally allowed to do so.

    By :
    Bob Rudanksie
    - Posted on :
    11/08/2013
  • Having spent some time reading the EU publications where competence is claimed I have to admit to surprise at the poor quality of the documents. Those responsible for the imprecise drafting would be hard pressed to gain employment in industry.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
  • Have just utilized an EU debate to counter a bout of insomnia and while watching the pointless posturing was struck b the number of empty seats behind the normal group of liberal,green socialist speakers.
    It really is time coverage of these debates included stats on numbers attending.
    From my limited TV position there seems to have been swathes of empty seats. Obviously these must have been representatives highly competent in the subject matter.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
  • I think you may have missed the point as to what 'competence' means re the EU.
    When you read 'competence' replace with what we English would call 'authority' or 'power'.

    As for your comment about the lack of socialists, I'm a bit of a free marketer, so the less of them that show up the better hey ;)

    By :
    Paul Acton
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
  • Legal authority to legislate is meaningless without a sound basis in the associated technical areas and an ability to draft sound contractually binding clauses.The EU fails in all these areas irrespective of what competence means.
    Without these underpinnings the EU Parliament is a pointless very expensive talking shop which various parties and their representatives fail to attend in significant numbers.
    Interestingly one sees better attendance on televised sessions of the much maligned Iranian Parliament, Chinese Peoples Congress and the US Congress.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
  • From what I gather the EU drafts very good legislation designed to harmonize the common market, allowing for free trade and competition.
    After all, the perceived goal (from my perspective at least) is to create a true single market where companies can compete on an even footing against each other regardless of which continent they reside upon.

    By :
    Paul Acton
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
  • Have examined a number of items of legislation which are internally inconsistent and drafted in a very lax language but hey I like every other tax payer know nothing.

    By :
    evad666
    - Posted on :
    12/08/2013
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