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Blair calls for directly elected European president, referendum

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Published 31 October 2012, updated 15 January 2013

A directly elected president could govern a multi-speed Europe and tackle the democratic deficit that would arise from closer economic and political integration, Tony Blair said this week, calling for a "grand bargain" on Europe that should be put to "direct popular consent".

“A Europe-wide election for the Presidency of the Commission or Council is the most direct way to involve the public,” the former British prime minister said.

Addressing the Council for the Future of Europe in Berlin, Blair said some differentiation in the speed of European integration was now inevitable as eurozone leaders sought to match economic governance with political structures.

Echoing German Chancellor Angela Merkel, he said Europe needed “one political settlement that accommodates different levels of integration within it” or risk a break-up.

Blair said that the path towards deeper integration was opening up a “democratic deficit”, namely a gap between European-wide decisions and the accountability of the European institutions making them.

‘Grand bargain'

The former prime minister said he would like to see the UK take a “constructive role” in shaping a "Grand Bargain" for Europe, recognising the need for closer political union to solve the eurozone's sovereign debt crisis.

He made it clear that he envisioned Britain in the second-tier of a Europe at two or three speeds and that other countries would have to “accommodate the UK’s very special position in the financial sector”.

But he said Britain should not interfere with the eurozone's integration process. "Despite UK objections, more majority voting in some areas can be justified, [and] is even essential to make Europe work. Without it, we can get paralysis when we need movement."

Blair is now a representative for the "quartet" of the EU, United States, Russia and the United Nations in the Middle East.

He acknowledged that Europe's multi-speed integration would be a difficult task that will require careful balancing of divergent national interests. But he said it was “an essential one if the UK is not to be side-lined and Europe to be without the active participation of such a large and significant member of the existing Union.”

UK referendum

The former British Prime Minister also appeared to back calls for the UK to hold a referendum on the new European political architecture that will emerge from the ongoing integration wave.

"I can’t see any new political settlement being acceptable without direct popular consent through referendums," he said, without naming the UK in particular.

“Let’s be blunt here … It is massively in Britain’s interest not to play short-term politics with this issue.”

Blair said so-called ‘ultra eurosceptics’ - those in opposition to the EU project - “were on the wrong side of history”.

He said that faced with the economic crisis “the underlying, profound rationale for Europe and its union is stronger than ever… In this new 21st century geopolitics, Europe carries weight, multiplies opportunity and makes sense for its individual nations.”

EurActiv.com

COMMENTS

  • He wants this so badly, he'll sell the rest of his soul to Lucifer to get it. That's why he gave up our JUSTIFIED rebate and got nothing in return. Tony Blair is hated in Britain, everyone knows he spent like a psychopathic socialist and has declared wars that millions of us demonstrated against (and we later found out the "dossier" was fake) AND HE KNEW IT.

    This man should be arrested for high treason, not being rewarded for selling out the people who he was supposed to represent.

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • Fascinating that this clown, like so many other EU lovers in the past who lambasted "eurosceptics" (or realists, as I prefer to call them)is still describing "ulta eurosceptics" as being on the wrong side of history. Given the current state of the EZ, I think that comment is highly debatable. Still, if the UK withdraes from the EU as they force closer political integration and decide to elect one of their many presidents, I can only hope that they get Blair (or Fizbo the Clown, as I like to think of him) as their man, God help them!

    By :
    Don Latuske
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • Don, the only thing Blair is thinking about, is power. He wants to be IN THE HISTORY books depicted as a hero. The man needs to see a psychiatrist, he went over the edge years ago. Of course, behind every psychopathic man, there is an equally, if not more psychopathic woman with a huge mouth!

    Hopefully, if Europe does integrate to such an extent and the UK leaves entirely, there is no reason you should have ANYONE there from the UK.

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • No real progress can be had in the EU before Britain LEAVES and of course takes the likes of USA's poodle (Blair) and 'The City's" Financial services toady (Cameron) out of Europe's way forward to a true Confederation.

    By :
    david tarbuck
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • Blair has right !

    Europe need a president now !

    Mr Van Schlumpfboy should finally leave his chair and let us europeans elect OUR EU-president !

    Thanks to Euractiv to this press release !

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • I couldn't agree with you more. We will always be a barrier in your attempt to create your federation. We will never be happy as part of the EU or the single market. It is also considered treasonous to give up power to foreign rule. It's in the Text of the Oath as published in 1559.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Supremacy_1558

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • an European - Just be wary of whom you elect and ensure it's for a limited amount of time. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely!
    You should also insist that every European has a chance to vote on WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE PART OF A FEDERATION, after all, if you don't have the consent of the people, you are no better than the old Soviet Union Communist State.

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • @Sue- Posted on : 31/10/2012
    Hello Sue ,
    As i commented months before Europe is going federal wether you like it or not!As i explained on most posts!
    An I will be keen on it: we don't wanna UK leave the EU! UK! I don't see the point?

    That's logic for me ! As a single Monetary and a single economie we still need a political and a fiscal union too ! Isn't the time ripe to make things right !
    To fight against the Jobless and the weaken economie here in Europe and even in the UK we have to go to an dual federalism or Confederation !
    And Europe will go to this modern political as much we comments here against it! This won't change the turn Europe has taken !

    Every kid understand that!

    Why crying for that If things is going on right rails now ! The past 5 Years was permanently a handbrake for Europe and that brake has been released now! :-)

    So now ! FASTEN SEATBELT...

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • @An European. You must see the point of consent of the people? Over 60% of Britons want to leave immediately, it's only our government holding us to the EU.

    It IS time to makes things right and give power back to the people. We pay their wages, they are our employees, not employers.

    Perhaps if they had been honest with us when we joined the EEC in 1973 and told us it was heading for a federation, we would not have joined in the first place. They lied, they continued to lie for decades while they gave all our rights away as free citizens and they are still lying. Their word is no longer trusted and we need power back where it belongs, with us.

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • @By : Sue- Posted on : 31/10/2012reply

    Is the united States Corrupt! No!

    What you are trying to say is that nationalism Gov as Spain and Greece had Corruptions and are still unable to govern their member states!
    What did Greece on bailout ! They continue to engage mass gov-emlyeers in the back door !
    Sorry! It's not the fault of Europe ??!!!!
    Don't mix things as it doesn't reflect nearly the actual Situation !

    Even in a federal way they should still resolve their Problems ! (Confederation)They own still their the most of sovereignity!

    U.S. is slight different with it's powerfull Centralized Governement!

    As we know we don't need Bank secrets for fighting against corruptions ! That 's why Europe has a Bank supervision! It's one example ! Time has changed !

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • Dear Sue !

    "it's only our government holding us to the EU"
    There must be have a sense ! believe me!

    " we would not have joined in the first place. They lied, they continued to lie for decades while they gave all our rights away as free citizens and they are still lying"

    Aren't you free to do whatever you want Sue !Which right's has it be taken away from you ?

    I live in western Europe and was travelling as usual all years to Spain! They aren't proud with their Gov!
    Believe me ! They have the highest jobless in the EU!
    Jobs , bread, water was taken them away !
    Somes of them are going to Southamerica to find a job there!

    The most important is for everyone to have a job as You Sue and Me! IF we raise stable the economie again we will rise it not only in the EU but in the UK too!
    America has a good political system and Europe is going to have one too with no doubt !

    We should help each other and not to leave each other ! But when really that leaving has a sense!

    We were United and had it very good in the golden Ara long last ago with Europe + England but this was history in SPQR!

    And if it think we have such many things in common shouldn't it be the contrary than wanna leave ?

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • No. the most important thing in life is family and I do not want my children or grandchildren living as part of a giant socialist state. You and I will never agree but that doesn't stop us from being friends. It's an arrangement that most Britons want with Europe and the rest of the world. Surely, you wouldn't deprive a whole nation of their wishes? No, I am not free, not as free as I was 35 years ago.

    I love Spain and have quite a few Spanish friends who are also disillusioned with all politicians. Many have joined "Democracia real YA". They say they had enough of tyranny with Franco, they don't want it again, with the EU.

    By :
    Sue
    - Posted on :
    31/10/2012
  • My god what are these EU people doing, they have caused more economic damage then all the hurricanes this century. They are bleeding all the countries in the zone dry . Come on give it a break, this united europe thing is becoming an obsession, a bad habit or whatever. Thier pushing us all over a cliff together and telling us its the right thing to do. Go figure ?
    Time to quit and call it a day !!!!

    By :
    klassen
    - Posted on :
    01/11/2012
  • Non of the eurosceptics here, usually unconditionals of people's unlimited rights do actually recognise the democratic value of Blair's proposition? Deluded...

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    01/11/2012
  • Regardless to the person who mentioned the idea of a directly elected president at the top of the EU another sentence got my attention:

    [A directly elected president] "could govern a multi-speed Europe and tackle the democratic deficit that would arise from closer economic and political integration"

    Well, it is quite interestingfor me that the general public takes the "multi-speed Europe" as an existing reality. It is already a step forwars - years ago the multi-speed Europe was just a danger in the eyes of many Europeans.

    By the way, I've already visioned a so-called "amoeba-integration"which is also based on the reality of an existing multi-speed Europe:

    "What I expect is the birth of a truly federal amoeba EU-integration. The basis of the new federal EU institution will be the current Economic Union. The new EU will look like an amoeba since the different segments of that existing Union (the Single Market, the Schengen area, the Banking Union, the financial tax, in a wider sense NATO membership, the EFTA area and the Council of Europe etc.) will always incorporate different number of Member states. However, in the centre of that amoeba will be the hard stone of the integration: a mini United States of Europe having a common president, a common army, common foreign policy with one foreign minister and probably having a harmonised tax system and using the truly federal currency: the euro).

    I am not saying that this will happen fast and straight forward and without exceptions. Some Members may leave not only the stone but also the wider body of the EU amoeba. Others may leave either the banking/tax or the currency Union. But this is the main direction where we are going and as a long term result, this can be expected."

    My full presentation about this idea is available here for interested persons:

    http://massay.kosubek.zoltan.dinstudio.com/diary_1_46.html

    I remain at your disposal.

    Zoltán MASSAY-KOSUBEK

    By :
    Zoltán MASSAY-KOSUBEK
    - Posted on :
    01/11/2012
  • @ klassen- Posted on : 01/11/2012

    Indeeld , ! Something a part of you will understand why we need the federal way it!In fact who said that we are going directley to an U.S and no a Confederation? Wickipedia please !

    @ Sue
    Spanish economie is a great crape made by spanish Central govs !

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    01/11/2012
  • And not by EU gov....!
    The brutality recently of the spanish policemens explains all...

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    01/11/2012
  • Zoltan (forgive my familiarity when we have not met or been introduced!), I think you have a reasonable point here about how the EU may look. I still sincerely hope that the UK is outside of the "amoeba". I also hope that, unlike the USA's Civil War in 1864-5, there will not be similar bloodshed should one of the states of the US of E want to secede from the Union!

    By :
    Don Latuske
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • Zoltan, what you are discribing is nothing much more different than how the EU's already functioning now (or has decided to become very soon). What we still have never seen in 60 years of integration is a country leaving anything in Europe after having joined it. That's much less probable, not because everybody embrasses the EU with passion, but for lack of any better. The country choosing this default position, will enjoy the disadvantages of membership about the same, just not its advantages...

    But your senario is anyway much more credible than those who predict the imminent collapse of everything to go back the 1930's, with every one for himself once again.

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • an european,

    We know, I think, what your views are and that you would like to progress to a United States of Europe.

    Your logic, sense of fairness and good judgement will of course inform you what a huge step forward that would be.

    Would you therefore please apply your sense of fairness and good judgement to the democratic position.

    Do you agree that the electorate (citizen) should be asked whether they want this and are asked to say YES or NO?

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • On 26 referendums historicaly held in Europe about further EU integration, only 6 have been rejected (with a rough majority each time), while the other 20 referendums were approved by an average magority of 65%. Factual statistics are pretty fair as far as "a good judgement to the democratic position" is concerned. Much more than whatever opinion poll!

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • How many of those referenda were second referenda where countries were "forced" to say yes after having rejected a treaty the first time? How many countries were being asked to give up pretty much total control of their countries? How many, such as the second tier of countries e..g. eater and central european countries realised that they were, initially, going to be net recipients of EU money (no such thing as EU money actually. The EU is a drain on the purse. The money is British, French, German, Polish, etc etc etc)

    By :
    Don Latuske
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • It depends on what you call "forced". If you mean they had no choice between yes or no... none were forced. They all were regular referenda democratically held.

    As far as the UK is concerned, it actually was already, unlike many other countries, asked whether they wanted to give or not more power to brussels, and they voted yes.

    The money may be stamped british, french, german, or dutch, but this money wouldn't actually exist without East and South Europe developing thanks to the european support. As it goes, the EU's investments there have provided UK/France/Germany's industries for 30 years with demand and jobs as well as expending export markets for northern companies, with cheap labour force in their exclusive profit (china or the US cannot access south or east european markets).

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • Frankly speaking, it is Britain's overarching interest to stay in the EU. In order to ensure it has sufficient veto power to protect its overbloated financial sector from any EU regulation that would threaten its continued dumping of financial services onto the single market. Frankly speaking, it is the EU's overarching interest to expel Britain just to get that protectionist blackmail to stop.
    Not to mention the area of social protection for which Blair secured Britain a veto in 2001, thus ensuring that the EU is in no way responsible of safeguarding the European social model, but is instead there to promote dickensian ultraliberalism.
    Europe cannot become democratic merely by allowing its citizens to elect its powerless "Queen of England", while at the same time throwing around so many opt-outs and opt-ins that the real decisions keep being horse-traded by heads of state behind closed doors.
    Decisions need to be taken by simple majority vote, and that logically implies that the EU Parliament gets properly elected, that individual countries, especially Britain, lose their veto power, and that the EU budget is no longer taken hostage by the states, but based upon taxes which a truly representative Parliament is duly allowed to levy in its own right.

    By :
    Charles
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • @ UKskeptic'
    On 26 referendums historicaly held in Europe about further EU integration.

    Thank you for stating the blindly obvious and for confirming what the problem with the EU. 27 states soon to be 28 and that’s all the referendums that we have had in nearly 40 years. We have had one in 1975 with no one under the age of 55 having taken part. If I could point out again the obvious, this is an English language forum so only Ireland and the UK would have an interest in it.

    If our politicians were not terrified I am sure, that if asked, you might not get the answer that you hoped for from the voters of the UK, Germany and France.

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • Nice to know about the ''quartet'', birds of the same feather flock togather.....the Iraq war is enough to hide in one of London's dungens, but you are still around to play your cards again.

    By :
    H Galea
    - Posted on :
    02/11/2012
  • I think more and more people from all around Europe should come and talk freely in english about EU matters. That's democracy. Nobody is scared of anyone else's opinion.

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • UKskeptic,

    Absolutely correct provided we use a standard of English that is decypherable! We can then all discuss European and other matters. However I get the impression that many points are wasted because we are not able to understand each other.

    On that point that is probably why it was easier to set up the USA.

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • This Blair Proposal further shows how out of touch politician are . The EU must progress no matter what the democratic voters think !! I belive an EU wide election of an EU president , would actually show the lack of democratic interest in the EU . British people might simply not vote at all . Italy has held referenda where too few people vote . I suggest the same may happen in others countries as well . Few people , right across the EU , identify themselves as EU member , or ever want to .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @George Mc Posted on : 02/11/2012

    "About democratic position"

    We have all elected our Prime's !!
    And if it becomes too important about political system!Not everybody knows about it!
    I will be keen ! An example: Do you think most people knows about policies ! Unfortunately NO! Not everyone is interested !
    Tell them what is a "federalism" is or ESM or IMF even Goldman Sachs! There lies the problem!

    By the way other question is: Do you think The "Philadelphia Convent" was it democratically elect by americans ? NEVER!

    And I wish we could simply elect our EU-President as Blair said ! I think soon or later Van Schlumpfboy must ceede his glued chair to an other!

    And finally Yes the Eu is democratically with our elected "Governors" but we are Missing an "Tony Blair"!

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ George Mc 02/11/2012

    your "YES an NO"

    See "Philadelphia Convention"......!

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • We have not all elected our prime ministers . We may vote for a party , but MPs choose the PM . The British public has not given a mandate to the government re the EU , since the referendum on the EEC in 1975 .
    British people and I suspect others would certainly not vote for Tony Blair as president and we don't want an EU president anyway . I suspect that not a huge number of people would vote in an EU presidential election , thus showing the lack of democratic interest and participation .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • UKskeptic, that is a total and utter lie that the UK electorate were ever asked, in those terms, whether they wanted to give more power away. They have never been asked in a referedum or via a political party manifesto whether they would cdede any power because our politicians, like other EU countries, probably know full well the answer they would get. Even if an electorate votes No in any referendum for whatever reason, national or european politics, then in my book, the politicians are bound by that vote. Asking for new votes on the same subject when they don't get the answer they want is tantamount to "forcing" the electorate. Politicians only hold power temporarily - the people hold power permanently and, as such, are servants of the people. Nice talking to you again, by the way!! And nice seeing George Mc and the others as well!!

    By :
    Don Latuske
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • Charles, the implication in what you say is that we have a United States of Europe, which is fair enough especially as you seem to be describing a model that I would understand better i.e. a parliament that develops and votes on laws, budgets etc. However,I have said here and elsewehere that nobody has yet made the argument that convinces me as to why we need any kind of new country/entity - in what way would our lives be any noticeably better socially, financially, diplomatically etc? UKskeptic and others have banged on in previous notes about how the UK's influence is waning, how it lives on past glories of empire and I have refuted this as well as declaring that we, the people, don't care about that, nor do we look to have any kind of significant influence as a nation going forward. That being so, I find it difficult to belkieve that we will be living any materially worse off that now. Finally, losing influence? Very few countries in the world are asked for peace keeping forces but UK military are amongst the best in the world and recognised so. It may be small but perfectly formed.......!!!!

    By :
    Don Latuske
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ Don Latuske

    Don, I am at one with you on your post to Charles.

    What Charles wants has some democratic legitimacy and in theory could be a way forward.
    However in a country of 62 million I sometimes feel disenfranchised from politics. What would it be like for the UK citizens if we become part of 500 million heading to 600 million people who have different languages, culture and beliefs.

    The model that everyone seems to be using as an example is the USA. We need to remember that it has taken them 225 years to get to where they are and mostly with a common language. The founding fathers were British and although many immigrants came from the continent to enrich the nation, they all learnt the language, English. (wouldn't it be nice if we could enforce that in the UK).

    Like Don says I can see no great benefit in having an artificially constructed nation or how it would enhance our day to day lives. No one can tell you where it will finish. Will Ukraine, Belarus or Russia be invited to join? Will Turkey join because part of their country is in Europe? Can we overcome the bureaucracy that already taints our lives without adding even more.

    How do we engender some love and pride for our new state when it is so bland and beyond recognition of anything that we understand? It is hard to get anyone to take it seriously. When I have tried to engage friends about the EU there eyes head to the ground and they mumble things like I need to crack on, shopping with the wife to be done or enthusiastically ramble about their next visit to the dentist!

    Has any one gone to the BBC web site 'democracylive' and clicked on the European Parliament. It is nothing like our Parliament and is so bland and boring that I promise you, your continued “wish to live” may be endangered. Your only saviour maybe a bottle of the Glenmorangie or as one of my friends says 'pass round the African Woodbines' (apologies to non British readers and those below 60 years of age).

    I am inclined again to agree with Don. It is not about bygone days, it is not about giving up influence in the world (our history is important to us though). We have been punching well above our weight for some time now. So perhaps we need to find a place for ourselves in the world which does not mean that we have to send our boys to fight while the bulk of the Europeans can't, wont and probably can't be trusted. We can still be members of NATO and take our responsibilities seriously without becoming the EU's military wing.

    After a quick proof read of my post I am even more convinced that Small is beautiful and the best way forward for the UK.

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • For antieuropeans eurobrits!

    Y E S , let the EU going to natonalism tendences and finally beginning destabilize economie and furying each european against others and beginning of an Intereuropean war as usual!
    As we europeans are so ignorant and never want learn from history!

    By the way ! Mr Farage don't want Scotland to leave the UK but want perversely do it for Europe member states!

    So let us Europe completely splitting destroying and go back with all national currency budget, united transferecies, Institutions and what belongs to every state and rebuilding borders and so on !
    Well let's see what happen! This will not only have an impact to Europe or the entire World but in the UK too!

    By :
    Le Pen
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ George Mc 02/11/2012

    your "YES an NO"

    See "Philadelphia Convention"......!

    Did american citizen elect democracially this convention ?

    I still didn't get any answer!

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ an european

    The Constitutional Convention (also known as the Philadelphia Convention, the Federal Convention, or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia) took place from
    May 25 to September 17, 1787

    Please, stop it, we can't possibly compare out situation to how the USA was formed two hundred and twenty five years ago. They had slavery back then, we will be quoting Magna Carta and the Bible next.

    You say Quote
    I will be keen! An example: Do you think most people knows about policies!
    Unfortunately NO! Not everyone is interested!
    Tell them what is a "federalism" is or ESM or IMF even Goldman Sachs! There
    lies the problem! Unquote

    Okay an european that will be fine then, the Electorate are too ignorant and stupid to be allowed to take part in a democratic referendum. So therefore there is absolutely no point in debating this as the Politicians will decide for us. I don't quite see how you square the circle though in wanting to elect a 'Blair' type person to lead us forward to the 'promised land'. The electorate will clearly, in your opinion, not understand the issues that 'The Great Leader' wishes to bring forward.

    Can I therefore assume that your opinion is that none of the EU electorate should be allowed a Direct say in their future

    The Answer to that is a YES.......or.........NO.

    I await your reply with interest.

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ Le Pen

    I don't understand your point really. You refer to "antieuropeans eurobrits" and I would say the majority of us have no intention of giving that impression even if we defend our arguments strongly.

    I can only speak for myself and let me assure you that if you wish to proceed with your project then I wish you all success and happiness.

    In return I hope that you would be magnanimous and allow the UK to make decisions about what we think is best for ourselves. In so doing we can still all be friends and offer assistance if and when required.

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ George Mc
    There are already top tensions UK - EU!

    UK skip telling Europe something about democracially to europeans ??!!

    Uk skip should now continue finishing their work alreday begann to pokemon each against oher....

    The project was Unifing each other and not splitting as almost UK want do it !
    Even EU leaders aren't capable of it to put an Central Gov and stopping pussyfooting with their nationalism intergovs policies which finally as we can all see leading our markets downing slowly and slowly in the Abyss until irrecoverable. I don't think Draghi will intervene as he did one time !

    Blair has right ! If the EU-Clowns are irresponsible there should be someone showing the right way instead of remaining to that actual Situation ! What the EU needs is not a clown-institution but a federal Central-Gov included an democracially elected President by europeans and UK !
    So if the (re)nationalism persists longer and longer a war is preprogrammed on this actual situation!
    To many binaries: yes no no yes no no and so on...from leaders!

    So be proud to be a Warrior instead of an european!

    By :
    Le Pen
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ George Mc
    There are already top tensions UK - EU!

    UK skip telling Europe something about democracially to europeans ??!!

    Uk skip should now continue finishing their work alreday begann to pokemon each against oher....

    The project was Unifing each other and not splitting as almost UK want do it !
    Even EU leaders aren't capable of it to put an Central Gov and stopping pussyfooting with their nationalism intergovs policies which finally as we can all see leading our markets downing slowly and slowly in the Abyss until irrecoverable. I don't think Draghi will intervene as he did one time !

    Blair has right ! If the EU-Clowns are irresponsible there should be someone showing the right way instead of remaining to that actual Situation ! What the EU needs is not a clown-institution but a federal Central-Gov included an democracially elected President by europeans and UK !
    So if the (re)nationalism persists longer and longer a war is preprogrammed on this actual situation!
    To many binaries: yes no no yes no no and so on...from leaders!

    So be proud to be a Warrior instead of an european!

    By :
    Le Pen
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • @ Le Pen,

    I am really sorry but I am afraid we are struggling to communicate here:

    I think what you are saying is that the UK should stop complaining about the lack of democracy in the EU.

    That you agree with Blair about an elected president to lead a Federal Government.

    That there is a chance of war if the UK leaves the EU.

    I am unable to understand the following:
    Uk skip should now continue finishing their work alreday begann to pokemon each against oher....?

    So be proud to be a Warrior instead of an european!?

    I think you are being a bit dramatic about the chance of War. As I said in my previous post if Europe wish to proceed with a Federal State and it is democratic then good luck and best wishes.
    Please do get your self someone other than Tony Blair as your President as that would slow down relations with the UK severely as he is deeply disrespected and distrusted this side of the Channel.

    I will not repeat points from my previous posts, but suffix to say even although we may leave we would still be best friends.

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/11/2012
  • It clearly appears to me that the Scriptures are coming to life right before our very eyes. Whether it be Mr. Blair or not who advocates (first) a united Europe and (eventually) the realization of the Treaty of Lisbon which revives the former Holy Roman Empire, it seems as if Europe's (immediate) future depends upon such a decision and yet, the very thing will not just bring about a one world government, but it will also advocate that all religions who are not mutually exclusive unite as one for (quote) betterment of all (unquote). And while from a humanist perspective sounds attractive, is exactly the perspective the leader of the (future) world government would want, and something the Word of God diabolically opposes.

    I am not saying that all people should stop trying for peace or for getting along. Nay, on the contrary. However, doing it without the reverence for The Creator, for Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit - the world is left spiritually dry and are searching for what seems best in its own right.

    If the Scriptures are correct, this will cause not just one or two countries to go into a tailspin, but could indeed help to ignite unprecedented wars, such as the world has not yet seen, even greater that WW I and WW II combined.

    I pray for all of humanity. I will start with Europe. Why? Well, afterall, if it had not been for the fiscal chaos that my friends in Europe are having to endure, folks would not have to advocate for the loss of one's national sovereignty for something that is prophesied to fail in the end.

    May God have mercy upon Europe and upon us all.

    By :
    K Taube
    - Posted on :
    04/11/2012
  • There are many ill conceived assuptions relating to Britain's relationship with the Europe and the EU .
    The EU is not Europe , neither is Europe the EU !
    British people do not think of themselves European , even if technically they are to some extent of origin . Europe across the English Channel is a beautiful place ; made up of so many countries , different cultures , customs and languages .

    Le Penn , British people are not antieuropean , yes , we are strongly Eurosceptic , anti being members of the European Union . Not everybody supported Britain being a member of the EEC , fewer and fewer as the years progressed . The British government was very wrong to have signed the Maastrict Treaty without consulting the people , knowing full well that there was strong opposition in the country and in parliament .
    Many British people have friends in other European countries . My sister did an exchange with a French girl and can speak fluent French . I did an exchange with a young Italian and speak fluent Italian . I have lived some years in Italy and have many friends there . I have friends from nearly every country in Europe .
    My daughter is married to a German PHD educated who works for the foreign minister . My daughter speaks fluent German and teaches English at a bilingual infant school . My wife was American and my 3 children have dual British and US nationality , my sons live in America . I have spent time in America and Europeans should realise the US is not as rosy as painted , is still a developing country . I opposed British membership of the EEC , because I instinctively sensed that it may be leading to something I don't want, and voted for Britain to leave in 1975 . Despite all my European experiences , connections and friendships , I am very strongly Eurosceptic .

    Yes , we have enjoyed peace in our time ; but if the EU ever has an army , it would be hot to go to war in North Africa , The middle east , Asia . Effectively the only real fighting forces in the present EU are British and French .

    As to having an elected president like the USA , one should also remember that that quite a number of US presidents have been asassinated .
    Tony Blair initiated British and other European forces going to Iraq and Afganistan ; he is immensely unpopular in Britain and I believe other european states .
    Wars are always created by governments , not the general population of a country . Splits that are appearing in European unity could indeed eventually result in war . My first target would be the EU buildings in Brussels , the EU parliaments , law courts ; to wipe out the whole EU political and bureaucratic institution .
    Europeans can be the best of friends , maintaining their own cultures and customs ; without any politics or bureaucracy . Europeans , I embrace you all , Eurocrats "Get Stuffed" .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    04/11/2012
  • @ Don Latuske

    Yes, I am in favour of a "United States" of Europe. Mainly out of philosophical-historical reasons. Because much of the mess that this world has suffered for the past 400 years, war, imperialism, colonialism,... was due to the lack of unity of this continent, of which Russia, Turkey and the UK are also part of. But a democratic European Federation would probably not improve much of our everyday lives for the next 20-30 years, whether economically, financially, socially or even in terms of diplomacy. Economically, we already have the customs union (aka the single market). Financially and socially, we already have the eurozone crisis which is the crisis of the "European social model", which is basically unsustainable for demographic reasons. In terms of diplomacy, nothing would change in the next 20 to 30 years, because foreign policy and war is the very last thing member states are effectively going to hand over to the federal level. Even the Germans now have their own foreign policy and bother less and less to hide it. And we have Nato already. Not to mention that war and tyranny are increasingly difficult to conceive with today's level of information amongst the peoples.
    But the fact remains that, in 20 to 30 years, if the Continent remains a divided entity with X many levels of "integration" and obscure, slow and undemocratic decision processes, then the laws of history say that it will naturally be taken over by more powerful polities, who will naturally have an interest in perpetuating its anarchy and division.

    By :
    Charles
    - Posted on :
    04/11/2012
  • Charles ,

    I think you are thinking at a political level .
    When you write of a "United States" of Europe , you forget that the people are already in situ and are not going to move , change or speak the same language .
    The USA was colonised little by little and people distributed themselves in different areas , where there was work or they had connections . Immigrants have to qualify , learn to speak English , to stay in the US .
    Many Eurosceptics already describe the EU as the EUSSR ,so when Russia joins and exerts that greater strength , it will indeed be the EUSSR .
    I do not believe that political power is ever going to change Europe from a collection of sovereign states .
    Short of all out war , which we are trying to avoid , there is no way that the people of different countries can be motivated into one . The EU is an army , all generals , little chain of command and no soldiers , too few of us the people giving democratic support .
    The USA is the biggest war monger of all time , wreaking havock around the world , but they are not going to take over Europe and would be too ignorant should they try .
    The EU congratulates itself on its greatest achievement , The Single Market , just at the time it has failed .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    05/11/2012
  • Even americans know now the US completely failed in taking a world leadership since the Berlin Wall fell. Their share of the world's wealth, army, research and development or cultural power has fallen down to the benefit of other poles like the EU, China, Russia, India, Bresil, Mexico... they'll soon become just one of them among others.

    In Europe, nobody is defending his land himself with weapons, in the name of God. Nobody considers freedom is only caring about oneself (the other people merely having to become bilionaires by themselves, why don't they "just do it"?), nobody's worth is only attached to one's bank account, culture isn't boring, food isn't plastik and people don't wonder around all day in faceless shopping centers, rejoycing of how priviledged they feel, faking smiles, boosted by pills and happy about their botox injections, useless-gadget purchase, as well as clothing-size change from XXXL to XXL. Nobody thinks teaching the Bible to pupils in biology classes is better. Politics aren't show-buisness and voting turn-out is far higher here.

    We should never take the USA as an example for Europe. Maybe rather switzerland which has already 3 languages for 8 milion inhabitants (and has managed so for 500 years, back to a time no one had heard even the word USA). Given that the EU has 500 milion inhabitants for only 20 languages, the ratio people/languages is almost 10 times smaller in the EU than in Switzerland. Let's make it the "European Confederation" or "the United Nations of Europe". That suits us much better than the cow boy's failing example.

    By :
    UKskeptic
    - Posted on :
    05/11/2012
  • @David Barneby.

    Quote When you write of a "United States" of Europe, you forget that the people are already in sit and are not going to move, change or speak the same language.
    The USA was colonised little by little and people distributed themselves in different areas , where there was work or they had connections . Immigrants have to qualify , learn to speak English , to stay in the US .
    Many Eurosceptics already describe the EU as the EUSSR ,so when Russia joins and exerts that greater strength , it will indeed be the EUSSR .
    I do not believe that political power is ever going to change Europe from a collection of sovereign states, Unquote

    David, I absolutely agree with you, the EU construct is totally different from anything that the USA has tried to evolve into over the past 225 years. It is an awful lot easier if you speak the same language and develop your own culture over the years to be successful. If you read American History they clearly had their challenges over that time.

    To take the different cultures, languages and beliefs of the countries of Europe and glue them together into an artificial State is a recipe for possible disaster. People argue passionately about unification to stop war which of coarse is a very laudable thing to argue.

    However be careful of what you create and do learn from History. If the citizens of this new state are not happy and discontent festers then you have the potential for Civil War. The UK has had to deal with 30 years of the atrocity that was Northern Ireland. The Spanish have not had their problems to seek in the Basque country and of course the hardest lesson of all to learn would be the false construct that was on our doorstep, Yugoslavia! In striving for Utopia do be careful please what you wish for!

    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    05/11/2012
  • To all of you who like predictions.. I wonder what's going to work or not in the future. Could it be... Blair's elected presidency plays a crucial role ushering in a new order. A european people is born with 8 United Euro provinces.

    1. BRUSSELS "Capital province" London /Southeast England / Paris / northern France / Rheinland / Benelux
    2. FRANKFURT: "Lotharingia" South Germany / Eastern France
    3. VIENNA: "Danubia" Austria / Hungary / Czeckoslovakia / Slovenia / south Poland
    4. BERLIN: "Hanseania" Rest of North Germany / Scandinavia / Rest of Polen / Balitic states
    5. MILAN: "Alpia" North Italy / south-east France / Switzerland
    6. ROME: "Adriatica" South Italy / Grece / Yougoslavia / Romania / bulgaria
    7. BARCELONA: "Iberica" South West France / Spain / Portugal
    8. BIRMINGHAM: "Celtia" Rest of British Isles / Western France

    Each has roughly 70 million inhabitants. Apart from the capital region, France, Germany and Italy alone are divided into repectivly 4, 2 and 2 provinces. Germany and Italy host 2 euro province capital-cities. They all contain one major european language at least and half of them share more than 2. Except for Brussels the EU's capital, every provincial capital has between 3 and 5 million inhabitants. No euro-province has a mega city within its territory except for the captital region (which has the 4 largest ones in the continent). Strasbourg is within a 1000km distance of every euro-province capital city before saint Pertersbourg, Moscow and Istanbul eventually join in.

    or maybe it could it be...EFTA

    By :
    UK-skeptic
    - Posted on :
    06/11/2012
  • UK-skeptic

    I do not think Blair's suggested "Elected" president is going to command any more respect from ordinary people than Rumpy Pumpuy does now ," Derision and a waste of tax payers money "!!!

    Are you serious , that the EU already plans to devide Europe into 8 regional provinces ?

    I vote for EFTA , evert time !!!

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    06/11/2012
  • David barneby, In real life, how much more do you expect to be changing for Britain getting out of the EU to join EFTA instead (again)? You'll be EFTA's poorest member with every other members enjoying half the UK's wealth for a population 6 times smaller. It seems Efta's members have other arguments than you to stay "out of the EU"...

    Are you also planning to vote for Britain opting-out inside EFTA (as Switzerland, Norway or Iceland unlike Britain joined Schengen for example)? Will the UK also be trying to fuss around at every EFTA summit, threatening to Splendidly isolate from Oslo, or Geneva, the way the UK would in Brussels, with their veto pop gun? That's going to be even funnier then! Lots of luck to the next swiss or norwegian victims of the UK's euroskeptic delusion!

    I guess maybe not Blair but one of Van Rompuy's successors will one day be democratically elected in Brussels, by the whole world.

    By :
    UK-skeptic
    - Posted on :
    07/11/2012
  • UK-ckeptic

    I find your post rather muddled thinking .

    I would vote for Britain to leave the EU , free of ANY attachments , such as EFTA . I know how much the EU hates Britain for its wish to leave the EU ; but that cannot exceed the British peoples hatred of the EU and their wish to be free of it . Leaving a bankrupt , sinking ship may seem disloyal , but given the choice we would never have joined the EU .

    Britain is a group of islands , we are island people , we like to be isola-ted .

    When Britain has left the EU , then is the time to consider a new relationship , EFTA or not .

    Britain has about 40% trade with the EU , of which usually more imports than exports ; Britains profitable trade , 60% , with the rest of the world .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    07/11/2012
  • @David Barneby- Posted on : 07/11/2012

    No !
    Britain hates EU and wish to leave the EU .....

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    07/11/2012
  • i still wonder how so many people are not bothered by the blatant use by blair of the "bnp' and its little mates for taking the st georges flag as "there own"? sorry but its a load of crap to get rid of it and using far right as the reason milions were actually stopped from using it untill it got pathetic enough to 'allow it' will allways make me despise that act of pure anti-english and the lengths he went to to cause as much racial disharmony to get what he wanted..he is a 1st class twat and cameron is the same,....but worse.

    By :
    terry walsh
    - Posted on :
    30/11/2012
  • terry walsh
    I restrain from using stronger terms to describe both Blair and Cameron . Twat will suffice .

    By :
    David Barneby
    - Posted on :
    01/12/2012
  • if twats like blair the messiah are happy to lose the english flag by any given way in order to run this country as a euro bastard, i.e against the wishes of the majority that voted this 'twat' in,and actually trust in that step 'down' then they are all worth what they get.Blair is not human in a humane way,he is self devoted and full of his own justice.democracy in this country is non-existant yet the term is still used? if one sided war is not a big enough eye-opener and the rape of the african nation inside and outside the country is not a genuine world concern for 'blairs christian soldiers' to go in and change the odds of living to at least evens, without the need for that 'carrot & stick' of black gold then imagine a euro-rule and de-compartmentalized compartmentalized,upside down chance of changing any type of new laws brought in by the 'few twat weavers' for the good euro patriots of bessie,s o t' barns' in manchester? i saw the st andrews flag raised yesterday, not a dicky whispered,lets see what happens next april...

    By :
    terry walsh
    - Posted on :
    01/12/2012
  • David B. Comparing the UKs top-25 trading partners outside-the-EU, with its 5 closest neighbours in the Eurozone (France, Benelux, Germany and Ireland), Britain exports in overall value:

    1. more to BENELUX than to the USA.
    2. more to GERMANY than to Japan, China, Russia, India, Canada and Australia alltogether.
    3. more to IRELAND than to Hong-Kong, Singapore, the Emirates, South Africa and New Zealand put together.
    4. more to FRANCE than to South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Philippines, Saudi-Arabia, Turkey, Jordan, Israel, Egypt and Nigeria alltogether.

    The rest of the UK's trade with the EU balances out its trade with the rest of the world. With the slow-down of the European economy (in recession for the last few years), the UK's exports to Europe have only just equaled its exports to the rest of the world, but for 40 years they have been higher, and will soon become so again. Anyway, were the UKs exports to be 49% to the EU and 51% to the rest of the world or the other way round, it still makes the Uk's trade with EU countries twice bigger than what these countries actually represent in world markets:

    Compare the share different foreign countries represent for Britain's trade, with what these countries' account for in terms of total world trade. The ratio is round about 200% for EU countries, and 50% for the others. (In some years it may be 199/51 or 201/49 but these are minor fluctuations.) So for example, if the Netherlands account for 1% of total world trade, they would be 7% of Britain's total trade. But if Japan represents 7% of world trade, it totals only 2% of Britain's exports or imports.

    Source: HM REvenue and costums Statistics from october 2011, zoom the graph from The Guardian on
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports

    By :
    UK-skeptic
    - Posted on :
    02/12/2012

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