Council of Europe asks UK to explain intimidation against the Guardian

Quote
I wonder if lapazjim is as excercised that we "stole" the Enigma codes in WWII from the Germans.Unquote

What an absolutely stupid statement. During war time it is perfectly reasonable and if you just think about it for a minute, every day there are thousands of acts of industrial espionage by states and companies/individuals. Not to mention espionage being committed by every country on everyone else. Have you never wondered why the Russian and Chinese Embassy have so many staff. Time to stick our heads out of the window and have a sniff of the real world.

Quote Even Vladimir Putin, who stamps on democracy, upheld the sanctity of the transit area of Moscow airport.Unquote.

I wonder why that nice man, Mr Putin would do that? Could there by something in it for Russia? I bet he won't have to get the information from the Guardian

As a Brit, without torturing myself or being overly simplistic, I find it all very easy. It goes like this:
An American, Mr Snowden has leaked stolen classified information to the Guardian newspaper and possibly put at risk the National Security of two countries (maybe more because I don't believe that Germany is squeaky clean). I say maybe put at risk because countries must have secrets and most private citizens are not knowledgeable enough to question this without even more information being given. We simply must trust our Security Services and the oversight of them by our democratically elected leaders.

Why should I object to the Guardian Newspaper having this information because after all they are part of the Fourth Estate that holds our leaders and values up for scrutiny in a democratic state. I have no argument with that.
On the other hand the Guardian is a left wing newspaper which many believe to have questionable views on National Security, the EU etc. etc.. 0
They are also when it all boils down to basics a for profit organisation and stories like Snowden and Wiki-leaks do add greatly to circulation and the bottom line.

Do I think that I can trust the Guardian in these circumstances, certainly not! When the Journalist and his partner are gathering information to give to a filmmaker I am even more worried and concerned about some of our high minded friends (Guardian Editor).

As I understand it today the police have announced that Mr Miranda's Computer has been found to have thousands of stolen and sensitive documents. Job done and if we still have it available slap a 'D' notice on the Guardian

Like Philby, Burgess, and Maclean (British cold war spies) Mr Snowden has destroyed his family life to the extent that he will never be able to go home again as a free man. Is that Bravery or Stupidity!

One thing is to bring a newspaper in front of a court, for a suspect crime, and another is to use government / secret service goons to intimidate people in airports and force destruction of evidence (hard drives). I am sure we can agree that these are two VERY different things? If the Guardian, its journalist, or the journalist's partner, had committed any crime (or so it was suspected) certainly the way to deal with this would be to prosecute them properly, without destroying evidence and without harassing other nationals in a transit area. But I suspect that due process of law was not appreciated in this case, as the independence of the judiciary might have uncovered unpleasing facts...

It's governments who should fear citizens and newspapers, not the other way around.

Paolo

The real question is, was Barry Davies born with such racism and xenophobia, or was it instilled into him later?

Let's imagine I apply to join a club on Pall Mall, say the Atheneum. After some waiting, and on the recommendation of others, I am admitted. The others are so happy they even decide to give me a special treat, half the annual fee for several years. As soon as I am in the club though, I start saying that I don't like the rules, they are unfair, they suit the older members better than me, and I would like them changed. I also up the ante the moment my 50% discounted annual fee is brought back to normal, and start complaining about the fact that the club does not admit the people I like but what the management board likes, etc. etc.

Would I be a popular member of the club, or would I be blackballed at the first occasion? Well, that's what Barry Davies would like the UK to do in the EU. That's what the UK has done in fact: I do not think it is only a coincidence that the europhobic feelings were allowed to flourish a few years ago, when the UK's special discount membership fee expired...

We all would like to apply, in the club, the rules that suit us, and not the others. Why can't the UK have Australians, instead of those pesky Rumanians... well sorry Barry, these are the rules of the club, you don't like them, you resign from the club. Totally, though: and then we'll see where the City goes...

But the issue at hand, for once, is not the EU, but the slavish behaviour of the UK with the US: why else would UK authorities keep Assange prisoner in a consulate for months (with 24/7 police that would be better used in patrolling some crime-ridden areas), harass transiting persons, destroy evidence without due process of law? Maybe to ingratiate the US, whom Britain will desperately need if europhobes like Mr Davies actually manage to self-harm their own country? The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Paolo there is nothing racist,or xenophobic about not wanting people from another nation telling you how to run your own country, the problem is in thinking that you are superior to the people of that country and expecting them to do as you say, so the foreigner of the eussr telling us how to run our nation is the racist and xenophobic stance not mine. I expect my elected politicians, of my nation, to place the needs of my nation first, which includes all the immigrants who live here.

Paolo,

I read euractiv regularly and I can tell you: these commentators are indeed xenophobes and most probably neo-Nazis. You can see their anti-immigrant rants in comments to almost every article about the theme on euractiv.

It's not a coincidence what they all europhobes too.

Otto you clearly have no idea of how the British system works, unlike the Austrian German and Russian monarchs, who held autocratic power until WW1, and the Japanese emporer who held it until WW2, the British monarch has not held much power at all since the internegum which began in 1649, so it would appear that it is you that wishes to live in the past, not the British people. Clearly a system that has worked well for the British people for 263 years is beyond your comprehension, and because we do not like the democratic deficiency tht even foreign politicians refer to in the eussr does not mean that we can not decry the lack of democracy in the eussr who after all elected any of the commisars under the control of the unelected barrosso, and who voted for rumpy or any of the others in the myriad of presidents who get paid vast sums of money to do nothing of value to anyone but themselves, in fact every one of them is a failed politician, now anyone in favour of this set up must be happy to live in an anti democratic intolerant governance, those of us who believe in democracy are not.

Tell Me Paolo why should anyone want to have a bunch of unelected failed politicians run your nation. there is nothing xenophobic about wanting to have a self governed independant nation, not governed by foreigners, it is the neo nazi's that want to set up a european nation, just as the original nazi's did. there is no reason why we should damage our nations economy to support the unemployed dregs of other nations impoverished by eussr legislation either.

Charles_M,

totalitarian regimes usually support each other. Russia and China are against the military action in Syria too. So, no surprise here.

Well following our democratic intervention into the political intention to take military action in Syria it seems that both the USA and France have been shocked into taking the same route as we did, there is no way Merkel would dare to send German troops in to a war zone without the backing of the UN or her own parliament so it seems that we did the right thing.

Paolo as usual you haven't grasped the jist of the problem, there are British people who are being denied benefits, basically to save the country money, but somehow the cutbacks don't seem to stop foreigners turning up here and claiming them. I am also sorry that our politicians dropped us into the eussr without any mandate to give away governance of the nation, but why should we abide by rules we didn't sign up for we didn't sign schengen so we shouldn't have to abide by it. I agree that benefits should be based on residence, and that should mean a period of residence, not just turning up at the border. Actually the largest burdon on the benefits system is the eussr nationals, other nationals come to work not to beg on the streets. As usual the problems in my own house are down to the system.