Gibraltar minister bids to calm rocky dispute

You are a bit mixed up 'old boy'. I seem to remember that the people of Gibraltar have had a referendum on whether they want to be part of Spain and they didn't fancy it. Bah humbug!

@ bobby
Quote by the way gibraltar is spanish though ;)Unquote

Bobby it really depends on whether you believe in democratic self determination or not. The Treaty of Utrecht says that Gibraltar is British. In 2002 the Gibraltar voters rejected governance by Spain when 98.48% of the vote rejected this on a massive 87.9% turnout.

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the Basque nation and Catalonians also decide that they wish to secede from Spain.

@ Bobby,
It is revealing that in your reply you totally ignored the position of the people of Gibraltar. I am always concerned when peoples right to self determination is trampled upon in the interests of winning or not losing an argument or discussion.
It is worth noting that modern Spain has been democratic for less than forty years and in that time has amended its constitution twice. Please therefore recognise that things can change.

If the Spanish Government had not been so bellicose towards the people of Gibraltar and had they proffered the hand of friendship and a bit of carrot (no stick) the UK government would have allowed the people of Gibraltar to decide their own future (and still will).

It always amuses me that Spain can have two enclaves in Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla which Morocco want returned. Spain however treats that one with disdain and contempt.

There is of course the enclave of Llívia in the French Pyrenees.‎

Bobby please do not quote the United Nations as they are just an international talking shop without any real influence and many would say a total waste of time. If you wish to say that the vote in Gibraltar is not recognised in the UN could you please provide over the next few months the number of UN resolutions that have gone by the way and are totally ignored or not recognized. I wish you luck on that one.

@ bobby

Quote
i am baffled when to finish typing
cos my fingers are hurting. i am not very clever person but not stupid.Unquote
I know little about you so will not comment further. I have justified in my last post what I needed to and will hopefully finish the thread by reminding you of your earlier comment that a treaty is a treaty. It is also fairly clear that you don't have to be too bright or a politician to understand the argument regarding Gib and Ceuta and Melilla. Once again you fail to justify why the vast majority of the citizens of Gibraltars opinion are unimportant. But Hey Ho!

@ Bobby
I can understand why the people of the Chagos Islands would be unhappy, however I do not know enough about whether there has been any compensation or not. With Global warning I doubt if it is a place where anyone would wish to live as like the Maldives it is likely to disappear. The Falklands were British before Argentina became a country.

If you can only handle a one dimensional argument I will simply state the obvious. The Treaty of Utrecht handed Gibraltar to the UK 300 years ago and there is no point in whining that it was not fair, what a fatuous argument. I have to suffer fellow Scots whinging about the Union of parliaments in 1707, three hundred and six years ago. It wasnae fair, am no happy! Fortunately that load of bollocks will be sorted in just under a year.

Tony Blair and Jack Straw when New Labout were in government was prepared to share sovereignty with Spain, but were headed off at the pass by the people of Gibraltar. That is where the problem lies and will continue to lie until Spain starts a bit of courtship because believe me if the UK washed their hands of Gibraltar (it really isn't a big deal anymore) then Gib could go it alone. But no the Spanish are in the financial clag with a PM being accused of fiddling and it is a good time to divert bad publicity.

By the way your argument about Northern Ireland is about as ridiculous as it comes. If Northern Ireland wanted to rejoin Eire or indeed go independent Iam sure that no one in the rest of the UK would would shed a tear. I visit there quite a lot as my daughter lives there. If there were a referendum tomorrow the majority of the Catholics would vote to remain part of the UK (have you seen the state of the economy in Eire, where there really is people leaving the country - again. Many people returned to N.I. after the good Friday agreement and he price of property rocketed. Any Northern Irish wishing to leave, Catholics or Protestants will probably be out of work (it is not good) or handing the keys into the bank.

If the people of the Falklands or Gibraltar wish to become part of Argentina or Spain then good luck to them, I have no problem with that. That is difference between recognising the current situation, democracy and abject stupidity.

Bobby if you want the right of reply then fine but I will give it a miss now, need to move on.

I think Gilbraltar is Spanish territory
Gilbraltar considered british is like cornwall under spanish rule, how would the british people would feel about that?
and elections in gilbraltar is a joke if you think about it: the population there hails from britain so what is the point of elections

@ Pedro

Love your logic, the Rock is full of Brits so it is Spanish! Belter!!

Quote
Gilbraltar considered british is like cornwall under spanish rule, how would the british people would feel about that? Unquote

It hasn't happened so I am not sure but do remember Spain sent their Armada to have a little go at us in 1599 and got their backside kicked.

On further reflection I would assume that the people of Cornwall would feel a little like the Moroccans living around Ceuta and Melilla.

Before posting I did do a little fact check and found the following interesting facts about the Gibraltar demographics.

Based on Surnames 24% of the population are of Spanish descent and indeed this figure will be much higher when you take into account the intermarriage with Spanish women from areas around the rock. This stopped when Franco closed the border.
Another interesting fact is that people with Genoese/Italian last names represent about 20% of the population. 10% have names descended from Portugese settlers along with Chinese, Maltese, Poles and at least a couple of thousand Moroccans. Jews, most of them of Sephardi origin who had to leave Spain because of the Spanish Inquisition are also there. Who says Britain does not welcome all comers!

As a British Overseas Territory Gibraltar governs its own affairs very well, though some powers, such as defence and foreign relations, remain the responsibility of the UK Government.

Please, I need no thanks for providing all this interesting information.

i am writing my views for anyone to read them ,ps if i write nonsense what do you write.i hope you are not pedro as well

imagine that the usa invades the falklands
populates it with american people
and then ask that same people if they want to be under british rule or not
can you find the link? :P

Pedro tu y yo estamos perdiendo el tiempo aqui, Espana no busco las cstillas a Espana fue Inglaterra con sus bloques de hormigon, si tienen pinchos es para jodernos, y inglaterra se olvida una cosa que Espana da acceso a lineas telefonicas , agua sanitaria, electricdad, gas, ect el campo de futbol esta en territorio espanol si alli no hay ni para comer y Espana es un enorme pais . tanto hablar de gente que busca excusas para vivir en el pasado , verdad nosotros fueramos colonialista pero inglaterra tambien pd los ingleses fueron uno angleles mira lo que hicieron en australia alli les odia y su reina tambien , los ingleses mataron a mucho aborigines. de Verdad Pedro tu y yo sabemos la verdad y no hace falta crisparse por unos comentarios de ninos, un saludo de un compatriota Espanol que vive en Inglaterra ;)