Prodi: EU isolationism heralds 'grave difficulties' for Britain

Yes, the boat is pulling away and we are there saying bye-bye.

We believe in the single market, and we believe our membership of the single market will continue, because it's in our interests and the interests of the other 26 countries that it continues.

But for the rest - I think we're generally content to be drifting away. Europe has become too undemocratic, Brussels too centralised. The crisis has forced the EU to make decisions without democratic mandate.

Mr Prodi may be concerned about us. But I confess I feel the occasional twinge of concern over what will become of the people of Europe. It is drifting, becoming ever more centralised, ever less democratic.

Interestingly, Sue and Hoover, I have been engaged in "conversations" with many people on other EU subjects on this site and many of them all seem to say the same thing which is Britain will lose out, cast adrift on their own, not able to contend with the rest of the world etc., and that we will lose the cosy blanket of the great EU. Yet nobody (especially UK politicians such as Brown, Clegg and other europhiles) has ever explained in what way our economy will suffer, why the rest of the EU will not trade with us. Do you remember Brown famouly saying that the UK had something like 300,000 jobs depending on trade with the UK. The implication was that all of these would be at risk. Nobody has ever managed to provide a convincing argument, based on any factual evidence, that we would be worse off economically or in any other way.

The "Little Englander" mentality is so pervasive across the channel!

I agree with Sue. When we voted for the Common Market I voted against and campaigned againsst it too. Why should we pay for inefficient farmers and peasants?
We have our Commonwealth friends and allies around the world. But I also know that if the German people had a say they would oppose budget rises too. They also are fast becoming Eurosceptics.

They need our money and we have an annoying habit of being self reliant. The richer regions of the EU are all pulling away. They are all fed up with supporting the rest of Europe. Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money.

That's the EU, one big, socialist project with their upper Eurocratic, parasitic, elite and their cronies acting as middle men, syphoning millions of our money to tell us what to do!

We are insane putting up with this.

Maybe,but Mike, you have cornered the market in defeatism, navel contemplation, lowering of self esteem, victimhood (under the tory vermin), and general left liberal wooly thinking.

@Mike

I'm afraid I agree with Edward. You seem to be one of those people that assume we can't make it on our own. Incidentally, "making it on our own" didn't mean isolation, it meant, cutting our own deals but in OUR interest.

Growing and sourcing food locally, buying British first and becoming less reliant on inferior imports. Why buy revolting French apples when our English ones (which are usually exported) are much better? Any industry that needs subsidising to such a ridiculous amount as French farming should be closed down.

Many of our industries have been devastated by the EU because of ridiculous quota/tariff systems designed to support those that should be shut down. Instead, like our sugar industry, we are not free to buy our products at competitive global prices because the EU is protectionist and does not really believe in "free trade" at all.

In short, we are not satisfied with being "little Europeans" governed by an overstuffed, overpaid bunch of foreigners who cannot even balance their accounts. We are natural globalists. We have outgrown Europe.

I want only Common market!
I want Scotland to be united in UK !
I want Scotland not to be Independent !
So , what will finally remaîn of the UK !
"Only insults to EU" and loosing Scottland...

I note in todays Telegraph that Bosch has spied on Dyson for it's vacuum motor. If that's EU so-called friendly nations....Stick it. To them the UK is just a source of revenue and for thier use. And we'll never have an EU defence force.

i prefer Merkel to Cameron the snob .....

There was an increase in seismic activity .... it's the EU's fault
The number of wrinkles on the Queen's forehead have increased ... it's the EU's fault
The pitch of the chime of the Big Ben has shifted by an octave ... it's the EU's fault ....

pssssh "begging for British money" hahahahhaha good joke, the UK is also in dire straits, like the US etc.... The recession is global you see and not caused by the EU but by the laissez faire attitude of some countries (including the UK) towards the Financial Sector.

Van Rompuy is trying to convince that Tory PM of yours not to make an ass of himself and chill on the use of the veto...

Your exports to the rest of the world ahahahahahah such as rolls royce owned by BMW... muahahahahaha

Just watching that excellent documentary 'The Great War' shown on BBC in the 60's. It does show the folly of European leaders. They're doing the same again.
Rather than promoting peace the EU Commission is driving Europe apart. Euro scptism is increasing in Germany, Holland and other countries. They are seeing the falsehoods of the Ersatz State.

I know the Telegraph is Tory. I am not. But it is a responsible paper and what one reads one needn't agree with. It's called using ones brains, which it appears your is very small.

@MS

Yes, that's called Capitalism, something we are proud of. Making a profit is what business people do. Contrary to EU policy, we are not a Charity to bail out bankrupt countries when we are trying to restore our own.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

"UK's non-EU exports surges to an all-time high as firms sell £13.2billion of goods to nations beyond Europe in a month". http://bit.ly/QPfAa1

Now if we can just get rid of the "ball and chain EU" we can lower our debts and revive our economy. Leaving the EU will mean less unemployed, saving at least £58 million a day and free trade GLOBALLY!

Admit it, you are on a downward spiral. Things are just going to get worse and the longer things are left the way they are, the worse it will get.

The Eurocrats are in it for themselves. They don't care about people.. ask the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese and Irish..

@John Hurst: what makes you think that I would have supported Hitler.... and who gives a damn about van Rompuy's dress sense? Just as much as I don't care about the exposed breasts of the HRH the Duchess of Cambridge littering the European Press all through the past summer.

@Sue: My point was that the absence of regulations (viz financial markets) caused the crisis and people of your ilk have prevented the implementation of these regulations. We will see how things turn out....

Back home that was greeted as a famous victory. The Conservative party in parliament – now, thanks to the 2010 intake, solidly and fervently Eurosceptic – promised the returning Cameron a "hero's welcome", reward for heeding their earlier warnings not to do a Neville Chamberlain. His standing among his MPs, some still unimpressed that he failed to win an outright Commons majority, has never been higher.

Cameron insisted he was not isolated, that this was simply one club within the club that he would not be joining. Britain would still remain in Nato and the single market. "Europe has many rooms," he said. The trouble is, it now looks as if Britain – one against 26 – is in the basement, if not an outside WC.

For his fellow European leaders, this was a moment of truth. After years of swerving round the core question – are you truly committed to Europe? – Britain was finally forced to give an answer. And its answer was No. Even Margaret Thatcher had avoided doing that, threatening but never using her veto. Lord Kerr, a former Foreign Office mandarin, was insistent: "She always said, we had to be in the room, we had to be there." John Major likewise. But not Cameron.

The official explanation is that France and the others refused Britain's request for special "safeguards" for the City. But that's not entirely convincing, and not only to those who reckon tighter regulation is exactly what the City needs. In practice, there was no way the eurozone would ever enforce, say, a Robin Hood tax that would instantly make London the obvious haven for investors. In other words, if Cameron had sincerely wanted to negotiate a compromise, he could have.

More likely is that he didn't want to. If he'd struck a deal, that would have meant a new treaty, entailing a Commons vote and, given his past promises, a referendum. That was the last thing he needed. His sceptic MPs would have turned on him, either defeating him in the Commons or turning a referendum into an in-or-out vote on EU membership. It would also have rent asunder his coalition with the Euro-enthusiast Lib Dems.

The result is that Europe is advancing towards its integrated destiny, with Britain in its rear-view mirror. The two-speed Europe has arrived, with Britain in a slow lane of one. Whatever the letter of the rules, the reality is that big decisions affecting Britain's economy will now be taken in rooms in which Britain is not present and has no say. Soon, foreign-owned banks may wonder what sense it makes to be based in London, out on the margins. Cameron and his party are toasting what feels like a victory. In time, it may come to taste like defeat.

MS

My point was that the absence of regulations (viz financial markets) caused the crisis and people of your ilk have prevented the implementation of these regulations. We will see how things turn out....

OMG No, I agree, the banks have behaved abominably, all over Europe and the US.

As far as I know though, our regulations have gone further than the EU's. I'll have to check on that, but I'm almost sure. It was the Labour Party (Gordon Brown) that removed regulatory control here. Flooding the market with cheap credit, so as to give the impression of a healthy economy. It was bound to crash sooner or later.

The only thing I object to is the "Tobin Tax". As Sweden found out, financial institutions simply move to another country or failing that, pass the cost onto the consumer.

Sue, They all have. It one big gravy train. I was very active in my youth in the Trade nion movement and we exposed this in the Anti Common Market campaign. That guy is just a wishy washy socialist. Socialist in words, Bourgois in actions. I've always believed that judge people not by what they say but by what they do.
I can respect people of all views and political beliefs but I hate charlatans. It suits the UK to leave the EU, so why are they so insulted? Why...because they know we are right!

MS "from the Guardian, the most serious paper in the UK, by far"

To be fair, The Guardian is terribly Pro-EU. Infact, most of the British Press is (with the exception of the Daily Express). I tend to read international newspapers, they paint a much more unbiased picture.

@John It's a shame the Trade Unions are not standing up for British workers now. If they were true to what they originally believed in, they'd be anti-EU.

"why are they so insulted? Why...because they know we are right!"

As I understand it, it's a Communitarianism thing (The Community Method). This is a socialist construct designed to drain the richer countries and syphon the money to the poorer ones. The EU calls this the "cohesion & structural" funds. Of course most EU countries are pro-EU, they stand to gain the most from it. Unfortunately, even though we consider ourselves financially ruined in the UK, they still expect their pound of flesh.

The mistake they have made is to assume that everyone is a socialist. I am most definitely not. I work for my family, not for anyone else. I am not a charity! I believe that we should not be taxed on the fruits of our labours but on the goods that we buy.

I don't belong to a political party anymore. I simply don't believe in representative democracy, it doesn't work, we've proven that. The only way that it could possibly survive, is if pre-election manifesto's were legally binding.

As it stands, a potential PM can lie to his hearts content (as did Cameron) and once elected, ignore every promise he made.

@John We were better off and we'd be better off now.

I'm sure everyone who comments on this post will be interested in this next link. After all, we all pay taxes. The FT is even more of a respected newspaper than The Guardian and Pro-EU.

"In November 2010 the Bureau, with the Financial Times, reported on EU’s hidden billions.

Our work created the only comprehensive database tracking every penny distributed through the EU’s Structural Funds up to that date.

It provides evidence on a structural fund programme that distributes €347bn of European taxpayers’ money across 271 regions in 27 countries.

For over eight months the Bureau and the FT collected the data that was never centrally published. It relates to billions of euros and reveals 646,000 recipients that have received the funds.

Our research exposed how:

Italy’s most dangerous mafia, the ndrangheta, has become an expert at getting its hands on these funds

A decentralised, cumbersome and weak system allows, and rarely punishes, fraud and misuse

Millions of euros are going to multinational companies to help them move factories within the union despite guidelines discouraging this practice

Funds have been used to finance a hotel building boom on protected nature reserves in Spain

The lack of thorough checks means money is being wasted

Some of the world’s largest companies are receiving funding despite the programme being aimed at small and medium-sized companies

Up to now the database was maintained by the Financial Times. Now we release all the data to data journalists and programmers for their own use.

Read the data yourselves. The EU is a wasteful, corrupt organisation and would be better DECONSTRUCTED!

http://bit.ly/RIV7pG

Ha ha ! hmm Sorry!

"The EU is a wasteful, corrupt organisation and would be better DECONSTRUCTED"

What is then going on with Scotland ! It seems like they will be independent and EVEN join Your lovely wastefull EU Organisation as it was a communism U.S. Superstate! That s finally not wondering anymore of us europeans because people insulting like you that lets rather UK DECUSTRUCTING !

And Sue ! I live very well here in Europe! Your extremely hate to Europe betrays that your not happy where you live maybe i suggest you to join us in Europe or U.S. .....

Well, I think Scotland leaving the UK is wishful thinking. Look at the latest opinion polls. 2 to 1 in favour of remaining in the UK. However, It is not for you or I to tell the Scots whaat to do. That is for the Scots themselves. I just think you have a hatred for the English. Also if it were not for us, you probably would be speaking German now and wearing a swastika. You all raised your hands in surrender. That's why we don't trust Europeans for defence. We can look after ourselves.

"Also if it were not for us, you probably would be speaking German now and wearing a swastika. You all raised your hands in surrender. That's why we don't trust Europeans for defence. We can look after ourselves"

That is a cheek ! And so you're!

My grandfather from other state than germany has been forced to teach "young germans" in WW2
but this was above 68 years ! We are tired from war !
Ne faut-il pas laisser le passé reposer?
What we have learn is that too many nationalism conducted to war and we shouldt reproduce this error again!
John , that's why the EU should remain United forever!
I agree what Winston Churchill and George Washington said !
Even U.S had a bad civilian war before the philadelphia convent!
War exists and unfortunately will continue to exist!
Many of us don't know how this hurts until we know it ourselves or haven't learned it from history!
And If UK should out If Sue thinks really that in practise it is for the benefits for UK! Why not !
But permanently insultations on posts ..!

@ sue .... you are the living example of the idiom "reds under the bed". Is your surname McArty by any chance... Regarding Structural & Cohesion funds yes there are abuses, but there are also success stories.....

@John Hurst .... the mistake was allowing you to join in 73. de Gaulle was right all the way, Pompidou "pussy footed" and Europe was lumped with GB and now we have to stand all the whining.....

@john hurst- Posted on : 26/10/2012reply

As i said before
I am a proud european :-)

--- €urop€ for€v€r ---

john hurst- Posted on : 26/10/2012

False !
Europe in the Roman imperialism was an entire Country with territories !

False again !!

1. formerly Germania wasn't on the romanian territory

2 do you thing the roman empire where there for war?

Ingland was romanian too !
This! we should never forget ! We shouldn't hate each other!

FINISH

I didn't know Romania had an empire. I've seen the odd Romanian working over here on construction sites but no advancing hordes as yet. Should I be building an air raid shelter or something?

Before the EU, Europe united many times: in classical times under Cesar, during the Middle-Ages with Charlemagne, in the Renaissance with Charles V and contemporarily with Napoleon. Many non-empire systems of political union and institutionalised diplomacy also took place several times in european history as in the decades following the treaty of Westphalia in 1648, those after the Congress of Vienna in 1815, and within the League of Nations in 1919. Culturally european movements have always reshaped england anyway (romanisation, christianism, renaissance, overseas expension, the entlightment, liberalism and socialism conflicts, decolonisation...).

And England anyway was successively colonised by some european invaders: romans (latin), jutes (danes), angles and saxons (germans), vikings (norwegians), normands (french), dutch (glorious revolution) and now americans. Each have left a significant heritage in the english language (not only latin).

Each time Europe has united, Britain had no choice but to make its best in order to influence its own destiny... on the continent, where this anyway was decided! There is no reason thit would now stop with the EU, whether the UK stays in-with-opt-outs or goes out-with-opt-ins...

*I don't think UJKsceptic is worth replying to. He obviously is trying to wind Brits up and possibly makes a fortune out of the EU. But watch our Parliament now on tele and you'll see the rebellion on the EU coming out. Notice he didn't mention Agincourt. Obviously he's as arrogant as those stupid French princes.

Plentagenets it doesn't sound very british does it?

Opt out from the 3rd Reich...we were never in it. You lot just put your hands up. Remember one thing..We never give in! Now Cameron has been told by Parliament...VETO!!! The EU will destroy itself, eventually.

Cameron can also legislate against rain on english coasts it's not going to change!

Your dignity? When your justice falsifies documents and arranges suiscides because of a phone call from Washington? When everybody calls you Bush's poodle? How loud are you whispering in Uncle Sam's ear?

It's true that trident depends on the US without whom the british army is third rate, so it's important enough for her majesty's forces to please once in a while some other nation's desirs... Certain english people feel even proud of it but I wouldn't call that dignity dear!

UKskeptic gallic history:

"In 1000 years Paris has only been 4 years occupied by Germany and there is no influence they left there what so ever"

1874,1914,1940 - that's 3 times in <100 yeras

Sarkozy now Hollande, scurrying around doing as Merkel tells them - is that the no influence??

Professionals and highly skilled leaving France in droves, unemployment more than 10%, the Frenach dream I suppose?

Edward99, Look at where Paris is on a map and also the word occupation in a dictionary. There were fights on french territory (france is a territorial power, not an island).

But after Hastings and the religious wars William the conquerer and William of Orange didn't go home after the battle, they installed their domination for centuries over England!!! Its more important than a few battle fields for a year or two at the periphery no?

If you don't even know that, I'm not going to start teaching you your own history.

Merkel with or without the EU will be there. No EU doesn't mean free choices sorry. If you stay in london that doesn't make merkel vanish all of a sudden.

The UK has about same unemployment, but you have a lot more disabled obese nerds not counted in the official statistics in england. Anyway are you trying to say england is an economic eldorado at the moment? Because the subject originally was about England right? or you avoiding the debate?