EurActiv Logo
EU news & policy debates
- across languages -
Click here for EU news »
EurActiv.com Network

BROWSE ALL SECTIONS

UK's Cameron on the defensive over EU vote

Printer-friendly version
Send by email
Published 03 July 2012

British Prime Minister David Cameron's suggestion he is ready to hold a referendum on Britain's future in the European Union backfired yesterday (2 July) after his opponents and some in his own party accused him of sending vague or conflicting messages.

Cameron appeared to rule out such a vote on Friday - at least for now - telling voters after an EU summit it would not be "the right thing to do", but on Sunday he said the words "Europe" and "referendum" could go together.

Struggling to clarify his position on Monday, he found himself booed by the opposition Labour party in parliament, under pressure from right-wing rebels in his own Conservative party, and at odds with his Liberal Democrat coalition partners.

"Just as I believe that it would be wrong to have an immediate in-out referendum, so it would be also be wrong to rule out any type of referendum for the future," said Cameron.

"Far from ruling out a referendum for the future, as a fresh deal in Europe becomes clear, we should consider how best to get the fresh consent of the British people."

Labour opposition leader Ed Miliband went on the attack.

"Three days, three positions, first it was no, then it was yes, then it was maybe," he said.

As the debt-strapped eurozone eyes greater fiscal, banking and possibly even political integration, Cameron is under growing pressure from the rebellious right wing of his own party to give Britons a vote on whether they wish to remain inside the EU or to downgrade their relationship with Brussels.

London's place in the 27-nation bloc's common market would be at stake in such a vote as - potentially - would London's status as a regional financial hub.

Britain's relationship with the EU has been a toxic issue for the Conservative party in the past, helping topple previous party leaders, and is a headache for Cameron, who has made a string of policy U-turns in recent weeks that have emboldened eurosceptics in his own party to press their demands.

Increasingly restless Conservative party

"Life outside the EU holds no terror .... The people of this country are unhappy with the relationship. It's the duty of politicians to listen," prominent Conservative backbencher and former defence minister Liam Fox told an audience in London on Monday, cranking up the pressure on Cameron.

For many in Cameron's centre-right Conservative Party, which heads the coalition government, the EU is little more than a talking shop and a source of legal meddling that impinges on Britain's sovereignty and holds its economy back.

A string of EU summits that have done relatively little to help solve the eurozone debt crisis has hardened that view, adding urgency to the debate.

"He has a difficult challenge. The Conservative Party is increasingly restless on Europe, because the eurozone is integrating further .... The question keeps returning - he can't deflect it," said Mats Persson, Open Europe think tank director.

If he is to mollify his party's restive backbenches while not upsetting his pro-Europe Liberal Democrat coalition partners, Cameron must tread carefully.

Vince Cable, a prominent Liberal Democrat, has already derided the idea of such a referendum as "horribly irrelevant", reflecting tensions within the coalition whose two partners have increasingly found themselves disagreeing on key issues.

Cameron argues a simple "in-out" referendum soon would not be in Britain's best interests given that Europe's debt crisis may trigger dramatic change in the region, and that Britain might be at a political and economic disadvantage outside the EU.

However, with the success in May local elections of the anti-EU UK Independence Party, and the Labour opposition party also floating the idea of a referendum, the Conservatives risk being outflanked on Europe ahead of a 2015 general election.

That has sowed disquiet among the party's backbenches. More than a quarter of Cameron's party defied him last year when they voted in favour of a motion calling for an EU referendum.

"They are very fed up and they are very worried," said Tim Knox of right-wing think tank Centre for Policy Studies.

Conservative lawmaker John Baron, who last week distributed a letter signed by almost 100 backbenchers calling for legislation for a referendum after planned 2015 polls, said Cameron needed to recognise the public mood.

"Politicians risk losing sight of the fact that people are growing increasingly frustrated that they are not being given a say on the matter," he told Reuters.

EurActiv.com with Reuters

COMMENTS

  • That would be amazing to have our Brithis Friends with us !Finally there is no reason to hesitate!
    Simply say !YES

    By :
    an europan
    - Posted on :
    03/07/2012
  • an europan

    I think you will find that Cameron has been caught out by the anti European for what he is. He wants a foot in Europe but at the same time wants repatriation of a lot of our rights that have been given up over the past 40 years. I think you will find (at present) that most voters would support him on that.

    I think he will play a crafty game with Brussels and try and get powers repatriated in return for the UK's agreement to treaty changes.

    If that doesn't happen then I believe that we will leave the EU in the 10 - 15 years. Europe shouldn't lose any sleep over this as we are not very good Europeans!

    The majority of Brits in my view just want what we joined, a common market. Nothing more nothing less

    Regards

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    03/07/2012
  • To Georges Mc

    I am deeply sorry to see that a common mistake is made too often: are we talking about the Britih people, or are we talking about British politicians when discussing feelings about the EU in the UK?
    Indeed, representatives are trying to fight against a fifty year old movement which consists in shifting states' soveraignty.

    This movement, backed at the time by W. Churchill and C.Atlee to name but of few Brits, implies that national or "local" policians will find themselves unoccupied. They don't want to loose the power they have been trying to hold since they are 20. Therefore, the best solution to not to sound like a crying child who must share its toy - power - is to argue that the UE is bad for the nation as a whole.

    Please, do not believe that I am this easy to convince. I need facts, long term policies and a global reason. For the time being all I have been given everyday is articles in newspaper threatening with the seven plagues of Egypt.

    As a European at heart, I am not enjoying my days when I see the common project, efficient and so well endowed with brilliant civil servants, being dragged through the mud against all reason's reasons.

    By :
    Sophie
    - Posted on :
    04/07/2012
  • Hi Sophie,

    Thank you for your response to my post.

    Your question, I think, whether being anti EU is supported by the people of the UK or just our politicians trying to protect their authority (sovereignty).

    I think that you will find that there is a large percentage of the UK voters who are unhappy with the EU for many different reasons.

    The politicians are harder for me to be accurate about. Most if not all Lib Dems would be in favour of selling their soul for Europe. The Conservatives who have many hard line anti Europeans also have people who are favourable to the EU. Labour is also split on this but I can't give you figures. I have no doubt some 'know it all' will give you the benefit of their opinion on this.

    You suggest that UK national politicians are fighting against a 50 year old movement. The problem we have is the lack of democracy. UK voters voted to remain in the EEC or Common Market in 1975. In so doing we agreed to certain rules regarding trade and the market. Fairly simply stuff, but fast forward 37 years and the picture has changed beyond all recognition. We now have Europe affecting so much of our day to day lives that it is hard in a sensible post to quantify it.

    You, and so many others, mention our great War time leader Winston Churchill's support for the European project in his speech in Zurich in 1946. They conveniently forget to mention that he did also say that the project was not for Britain and at no time did he support joining it.

    You state that you are a European at heart and it is only right that we must respect your beliefs and your sincerity. On the other hand you must also understand that there are many who do not agree with the 'Great European Project' and that some of us would be happy with something a lot less and indeed some who want no part of it at all. The only way that that is going to be solved is for each country to have a debate about what is acceptable and what is not. After all Sophie 1975 is a long time in the past and the EU has just crept up on us and lost its democratic legitimacy in that time.

    What is it about Brussels that terrifies them about asking the citizen about what they want?

    I am not going to list all the reasons why I think that the current plan for Europe is a mistake but I would have thought the creation of a single currency and its subsequent management would worry anyone who hears the expression the answer is 'More Europe, not less'

    Person anally I would be happy with what we voted for in 1975, a common market or trading club. With a lot of the powers that have been given away returned to the nation state. I am also more in favour of the European Council making decisions and ditching the 'Community Method' which allows small nation states to have Commissioners punch well above their ability. This method saddles Europe with mediocrity as most of them would not get voted in to the bigger countries parliaments. By the way that also includes the UK's Catherine Ashton who has never been elected to anything in her life. You say that 'as a European at heart, I am not enjoying my days when I see the common project, efficient and so well endowed with brilliant civil servants, being
    dragged through the mud against all reason's reasons.

    I am not so sure just how brilliant they are Sophie but like Baroness Ashton it is the belief of most people in Britain that they are massively over compensated with the salary and terms and conditions that they receive.

    Kind Regards
    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    05/07/2012
  • Brit, Brit, Brit ,UK, UK , UK
    That is an issue for the EU! A handbrake for the EU !
    only nonsense discussions!!
    They want it! Giving them and let the Brits isolated outside !
    This is i mainly intended for conservativ british politcians than rather people!

    So it s up to Cameron !

    By :
    an european
    - Posted on :
    05/07/2012
  • George puts forward the issue for a large majority of the British public very well.

    Sophie as for brilliant civil servants you must remember that most EU commissioners (especially from the UK) were failed politicians, so the British see the EU as a retreat to the gravy train where politicians can feed on an ever increasing budget.

    When the EU has asked the population to vote on the progress of the EU to the superstate with the referendum on the Constitution the population has said NO. But this wasnt acceptable so they stopped asking, changed a few words and called it the Lisbon treaty.

    When the Irish said NO they offered some small changes and made them vote again? I am convinced they would keep making them vote until they came back with the right answer (YES).

    In my opinion the EU is very undemocratic, it interferes with countries politics by providing money to support the EU in advertising and promotion. Risky place for European to be in. The EU is looking more like turning into the EUSSR.

    By :
    David W
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • > as for brilliant civil servants you must remember that most EU commissioners (especially from the UK) were failed politicians, so the British see the EU as a retreat to the gravy train where politicians can feed on an ever increasing budget.

    Actually, Commissioners are NOT civil servamts at all. They are [mere?] politicians, elected by other politicians for term of a few years to make political decisions.
    MEPs are also not civil servants, by the way.

    In order to become a civil servant in Brussels one has to pass a competition - beat thousands of other candidates, show ability to work in min. 2 foreign languages... Just saying.

    Another difference is that civil servants get one salary/pension cut after another (no worries, Dail Mail will never report on it!), while teh Commissioners and MEPs succesfully avoid any changes.

    But of course an average citizen sees no difference.

    By :
    Ann
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • I am not sure what point Ann is trying to make?
    Ann really needs to check her facts before posting:

    I would suggest that a Commissioner is more a civil servant than a politician. Commissioners swear an oath to act only on European interests. By definition they are therefore not allowed to follow an individual coarse of action.

    British commissioners are appointed by the Prime Minister of the UK (no democracy there) and are then appointed to a portfolio by the Commission President. The European Parliament are allowed to vote on the Commission as a whole but cannot object to individual members.

    Ann says 'In order to become a civil servant in Brussels one has to pass a competition
    - beat thousands of other candidates, show ability to work in min. 2 foreign
    languages... Just saying.' Really? The poor dears apart from the two languages that will be just like any other person in the UK applying for a job. We must not make it difficult for them to get their snouts (and all four trotters) in the trough.

    In summary the salaries paid would be regarded by UK civil service workers as Superb and the very topical issue of pensions unmatchable (70% of final salary for just over 10% of the very generous salary which goes up and up (not down as Ann suggests) I have cut and pasted from the EU website for all who don't work for the EU to read and weep

    Basic monthly Commission salaries range from around €2,300 per month for a newly recruited AST 1 official to around €16,000 per month for a top level AD 16 official with over 4 years of seniority.
    Each grade is broken up into five seniority steps with corresponding salary increases. Basic salaries are adjusted annually in line with inflation and purchasing power in the EU countries. The complete salary table is available in the Staff Regulations (Article 66)
    The basic monthly salary is just the starting point. To know how much you will get, you then have to add the allowances you may be entitled to, minus social security contributions (pension, health and accident insurance) and other taxes (income tax and a special EU levy). You will find more details below.
    Allowances
    If you have left your home country to come and work for the European Commission, you are entitled to an expatriation allowance equivalent to 16% of your basic salary.
    Some family-related allowances are available to Commission officials according to their family situation. These include a household allowance, a dependant child allowance, an educational allowance and a pre-school allowance. These allowances can help to cover the costs of looking after a family while working for an international organisation. For more information, see the Staff Regulations (Articles 62 to 71 and Annex VII .
    Pension
    EU officials normally reach retirement age at 63, but it is possible to take early retirement with a reduced pension from the age of 55, or to work up until the age of 67. FAQ.
    Pensions are paid as a percentage of the final basic salary. Officials accumulate 1.9% pension rights every year and are entitled to a maximum pension of 70% of their final basic salary. For more details, see the Staff Regulations (Articles 77 to 84 and Annex VIII ).
    Staff can apply to transfer the pension rights they already have from a previous job or as a self-employed person. Similarly, you can also transfer the pension rights you gain while working at the European Commission into another pension fund. For more information, see the Staff Regulations (Articles 11 and 12 of Annex VIII ).
    Whilst working, your contribution to the pension scheme will correspond to 10,25% of your basic salary.
    Sickness insurance
    As a European Commission official, you and your family are entitled to benefit from the Joint Sickness Insurance Scheme of the European Communities, which covers medical expenses at a reimbursement rate of 80% for most kinds of treatment (subject to maximum limits). You are also covered by accident insurance and insurance against occupational diseases.
    The Joint Sickness Insurance Scheme is funded through a contribution of about 2% of the basic monthly salary from each Commission official.
    You are also required to undergo a preventive medical check-up every year.  For more details, see the Staff Regulations (Articles 72 to 76 ).

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • My point, George, is that the civil service Sophie talks about are NOT the failed politicians you talk about. Civil servants -all- passed highly competitive exams based on merit. High level politicians in visible places, like Ashton, Barroso etc. neither are representative for that group nor form part of it. Whatever you suggest does not change the facts :).

    >The poor dears
    Now now, patronizing is uncalled for.

    > apart from the two languages that will be just like any other person in the UK applying for a job. We must not make it difficult for them to get their snouts (and all four trotters) in the trough. + the conditions etc.
    "Apart" indeed :). Eurocrats need to work in min. 2 foreign languages, leave his/her home country, persuade the wife/husband to leave their career and trail along, see family few times a year etc. - indeed, apart from such "details" they are indeed as any Brit applying for a job. By the way, working conditions are already insufficient to attract non-Belgians to come to Brussels. Belgians repersent 2% of EU population and over 20% of EC workforce.

    > regarded by UK civil service workers as Superb
    Well, the UK civial servants do not have to watch with jealousy - the competitions are open for them as well, you know, and UK government even has some preparatory courses, I heard. [Fascinating how so few of them actually apply... Not only they - the Commission has repeatedly publicised its difficulty in recruiting civil servants from the richer countries, such as Germany or Finland].
    I just hope they will not be too disappointed when they come and see that the starting level is the lowest one, the promotions very slow and the higher grades inattainable. (Grade 16 is practically reserved for General Director, of whom there are c. 27 in total).

    Let us just say that I worked as stagiaire in the EC and was not inerested in staying there.

    [By the way, the salaries are NOT adjusted according to the inflation - if you read Euractiv, you must be familiar with the method.]

    By :
    Ann
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • Ann thank you for your quick response.

    Although petty it is worth pointing out that if you read posts correctly you will see that at no time did I refer to failed politicians of any sort. That was someone else, David W I think.

    The EU say that they represents approx 500 million people. Please, if you can, point out one Commissioner (ever) or MEP who would come up on the world radar like say, Cameron, Merkel, Blair, Sarkozy, Clinton (Hilary)and so on and on? Baroness Ashton was sent to Brussels because David Milliband didn't want to go and Gordon Brown was feeling mischievous!

    That's what I was referring to when I was talking about politicians. When it comes to the EU eurocrats I did say:
    'I am not so sure just how brilliant they are Sophie but like Baroness Ashton it is the belief of most people in Britain that they are massively over compensated with the salary and terms and conditions that they receive. '
    I still stand by that statement and would reply to your points as follows:

    >The poor dears
    Now now, patronizing is uncalled for. My apologies I have no intention of patronizing anyone. However you really have to look at how your statement looks:

    You say> apart from the two languages that will be just like any other person in the UK applying for a job. We must not make it difficult for them to get their snouts (and all four trotters) in the trough. + the conditions etc.
    "Apart" indeed :). Eurocrats need to work in min. 2 foreign languages, leave his/her home country, persuade the wife/husband to leave their career and trail along, see family few times a year etc. - indeed, apart from such "details" they are indeed as any Brit applying for a job. By the way, working conditions are already insufficient to attract non-Belgians to come to Brussels. Belgians represent 2% of EU population and over 20% of EC workforce.

    Ann Brits do indeed have a problem with languages and more of us should learn different languages. The Government is trying to do something about that but it will take time before that works its way through. Please remember though and I don't want to be patronizing but Brussels is only 225 miles from Brussels. There are thousands of people within the UK who are 2 3 and 400 miles away from family and fiends because they need to pursue a career and yes, the husband or wife will follow dependent on who earns the most etc. Not new and if even more common since the financial collapse. I cannot argue with your experience of Brussels but I would point out that we have people with 1st class Honours Degrees working (no in there discipline) for less than £18,000 annum and before much longer they will be under pressure from well qualified Greeks, Portugese and Spaniards dumping themselves on the UK market looking for work (the Irish are already here). Its not easy for anyone but you are failing to bring a tear to my eye with your own experience.

    The reason Brusssels are struggling to recruit Brits is as said previously Languages.

    Ann I am struggling to believe what you are saying regarding salary increases as in my last post which was copied from the EU website
    “Basic salaries are adjusted annually in line with inflation and purchasing power in the EU countries.” Maybe my English is not good but that means an increase will be given. In fact didn't the Commission take the member countries to the European Court because they challenged the last increase. I believe that the Commission won!

    Regards
    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • One draw back for us Brits is that language training is generally poor so most will be screened out on the two language requirement.

    I was berated by a group of Corporate European IT Directors for not speaking another language(I can get by (say hello, please and thank you, order food, hotel room etc... in German and French).

    When I asked what languages they learnt at school they all replied, and English. They had all learnt English as a second Language, so I asked which language would they suggest I focused on i.e French, German, Danish, Swedish ... and then what benefit would it be to the others?

    It is one of the drawbacks when everyone in the world seems to want to learn English. Apparently there are more Chinese learning English than native English speakers children.

    This isn't a complaint just a fact of life and if UK Civil Servants want to get in on the EU act they need to learn a second language. Most schools do not do a good job teach languages (even English) and as there are so few rules in English it makes it harder for us native speakers to learn a second language (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it):-)

    By :
    David W
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • *

    Missing text

    When I asked what languages they learnt at school they all replied their own language and English. They had all learnt English as a second Language, ....

    By :
    David W
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • >Please, if you can, point out one Commissioner ...
    I can not and I agree that they are mediocre (now - e.g. Jacques Delors was better). The reason for that is that NATIONAL politicians (Cameron, Merkel, Blair, Sarkozy...) WANT to have weak Commission. The UK ones more than others, I'd say. If you do not like Ashton (and I do not blame you) you have Downing Street to blame :).

    As regards (not) moving to Brussels: I do not agree with you and moving even far from home but still in the homeland (which by the way most people, at least in my country, do not do) is not the same as moving abroad. In one's homecountry one is still 'chez soi' [= in its own place], abroad one becomes a bloody foreigner. Your post is a good example: do you complain about people from Reading stealing work from Londoners? No, you are all Brits after all! Even Irish are a different matter altogether, no?
    Other issues are also important - I bet it is easier and cheaper to get to e.g. Reading from London thatn from Brussels. One still has the same shops, TV channels and magazines. Etc.
    I am not saying that the conditions offered by the EU are not attractive, but they are not longer attractive enough to encite highly qualified people from other countries.

    As regards salary adjustment: the quote you refer to is incorrect, and 'adjustment' may be well below inflation. See e.g.
    http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/10/563&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
    ["Since 2004, when the method was introduced into the Staff Regulations, EU staff salaries have lost 5.3% of their purchasing power." No tabloid ever reports on that, do they?]
    Well, have a nice weekend.

    By :
    Ann
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • @ David

    Ok, let us -for the sake of argument- say that is why there are not enough Brits in Brussels.

    Why are Swedes, Danes and Germans also underrepresented? Surely, e.g. Scandinavians have no problems with languages:).
    Well, have a nice weekend.

    By :
    Ann
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • David W,

    I know what you mean and English is the international Business language. I personally wish I had learned a language but they were not available in school when it would have been much easier to learn, work and other things got in the way later in life.

    If I were doing it again I would have gone for one of the BRICS languages and scarily there is only one EU language in there if you ignore English (south africa). If I were in business and needed to sell to the up and coming countries I am sure it would be helpful.

    Good Luck
    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • Ann

    We are agreed on the Commission then. I would not make too much about Brussels and in the big picture I don't think it costs us at the expense of very much else.

    On the subject of the Commission and changing direction slightly I have posted else where that I am not a fan of the Community Method and much prefer for the member states to come together and make agreements. The Commmunity method brings mediocre people to Brussels and even the smallest country gets a commissioner.

    Its too late now but if all those years ago when it all started if France, Italy, Germany and the UK could have come together and put an acceptable framework together. Then the other smaller countries who wished to join would have known what the rules were. The current system is a complete Horlicks (british word) and will never excite the ordinary citizen who probably doesn't understand (or care)10% of it.

    Have a great weekend
    All the very best
    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • Just factual remark:
    >when it all started if France, Italy, Germany and the UK could have come together and put an acceptable framework together. Then the other smaller countries who wished to join would have known what the rules were.

    When it all started UK was absent. It joined only c. 15 years after the Community started (in 1971, if I remember well).
    I surely would have had no problems with the FOUNDING countries (France, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Germany) to agree on the rules to be provided on 'take it or leave it' basis to those that who wanted to join. Without special rules, opt-outs, rebates etc.
    I am not so sure whether the UK would have been so happy about it.

    Nice weekend!

    By :
    Ann
    - Posted on :
    06/07/2012
  • Ann

    We go full circle. The UK only wanted to join a trading club or market to get around tariffs and protectionism. UK voters voted to remain in the EEC or Common Market in 1975. In so doing we agreed to certain rules regarding trade and the market. Fairly simply stuff, but fast forward 37 years and the picture has changed beyond all recognition. We now have Europe affecting so much of our day to day lives that it is hard in a sensible post to quantify it. (as posted elsewhere)

    What I was trying to say Ann, if a better and more sensible solution had been found when there were few enough states to get an agreement (27 is too many). Then it would have been up to each nation who was not a member to decided if they wanted to join.

    When the UK joined the EU must have wanted us or we would have been denied. I think Charles de Gaulle had died by then!!!!! Even with Margaret Thatchers rebate we are still the third largest net contributor.

    However, if push comes to shove and shove comes to push we can always follow the electorate and leave. We may initially be disadvantaged but we would be forced to find other markets.

    As agreed earlier 37 years after joining the 500 million club we have people of the stature and standard running the show like Van Rompuy, Barrosa and Ashton. It doesn't exactly fill you with hope and pride.

    Regards
    George Mc

    By :
    George Mc
    - Posted on :
    07/07/2012
Background: 

UK Prime Minister David Cameron, who has been largely critical of the EU, entered an uneasy government coalition in 2010 with the pro-European Liberal Democrat party.

But as the eurozone eyes greater fiscal, banking and possibly even political integration to sovereign solve its debt crisis, Cameron is under growing pressure from the rebellious right wing of his own party to give Britons a vote on whether they wish to remain inside the EU or to downgrade their relationship with Brussels.

Senior politicians from the Labour party have sought to gain advantage from Cameron's difficult position, calling for Britain to clarify its relations with the EU by holding a referendum.

More on this topic

More in this section

Advertising

Videos

Video General News

Euractiv Sidebar Video Player for use in section aware blocks.

Video General Promoted 4

Euractiv Sidebar Video Player for use in section aware blocks.

Advertising

Advertising